WI: No Eurofighter Typhoon?

abc123

Banned
to find ships and have a lot of luck doing so plus you can find subs if you train your crews what to look for, the periscope for example does give off a radar return, the snorkel on a diesel electric boat again does give off a return but you would need a very good crew or a techie gets lucky.

You know, there is a reason why nobody in the world uses their AEWACS aircrafts for MPA duties...
;)
 

abc123

Banned
true but if you have no mra4 then what let any tom dick and harry come into our waters?

Well nothing stopped them until now really, I mean, you will not drop a torpedo on unknown ( presumably Russian ) submarine even if in British territorial waters during peacetime...
 
my point exactly the decision to scrap them was a big freaking mistake keep the mra 2 and upgrade it when needed instead of letting another country safeguarding your territorial waters that does not give a fuck in defending you when the say the would. America i name you OATH BREAKERS.
 

abc123

Banned
my point exactly the decision to scrap them was a big freaking mistake keep the mra 2 and upgrade it when needed instead of letting another country safeguarding your territorial waters that does not give a fuck in defending you when the say the would. America i name you OATH BREAKERS.

And way, oh way should American taxpayers spend their hard-earned money to defend the country whos'e taxpayers/Goverment doesen't give a sh** about their military capabilities?
:confused:
 
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my point exactly the decision to scrap them was a big freaking mistake keep the mra 2 and upgrade it when needed instead of letting another country safeguarding your territorial waters that does not give a fuck in defending you when the say the would. America i name you OATH BREAKERS.
If your government is short sighted enough to weaken your maritime security, maybe instead of blaming another sovereign nation you should gather other like minded people and petition your government to reprioritize funding to national security. Regardless of any treaties or alliances a nation has, it must look to it's own security first.
 
my point exactly the decision to scrap them was a big freaking mistake keep the mra 2 and upgrade it when needed instead of letting another country safeguarding your territorial waters that does not give a fuck in defending you when the say the would. America i name you OATH BREAKERS.

They were upgrading the MRA 2 into the MRA 4, however somebody forgot to think about the fact that the Nimrods were built so long ago that it was virtually one off aircrafts with each one having different characteristics (I can't speak for the Nimrod but in the book on the Vulcan it was pointed out that each one of them flew and handled differently due to differences in construction).

As I understand it by the time the BAE team realised this then the costs for the project got out of control (not to mention most likely modifications to deal with issues like Nimrods blowing up).

Frankly given the age of the design and both the needs and uses for it, I think the UK made a blunder with the MRA 4 programme from start to finish, not that that's unusual with some of the UK's choices.

UK MOD and BAE have plenty to answer for that has nothing to do with the US, though I suppose for people like you it's a handy excuse.
 
true but if you have no mra4 then what let any tom dick and harry come into our waters?

There are other options, the US P-8 if the UK wanted it and would pay for it, the proposed MPA variant of the A400 which I think was touted at some point during it's development and would have allowed the RAF to share costs across a larger fleet, the CASA CN295 MPA which is operational right now.

All of these however would require vastly better planning and leadership from the MOD and the UK politicians. The reality is that's it's pretty hard to convince the public to pay for such high end equipment as the UK public isn't concerned about allied or hostile subs in UK Waters.
 
... the UK public isn't concerned about allied or hostile subs in UK Waters.

Two world wars. Each time featuring submarine warfare that nearly strangled the economy and starved the nation. And this wasn't enough to convince them that subs are a threat to the shipping their lives depend on? The ghosts from the Battle of the Atlantic are spinning in their watery graves right now, I'd say.
 
Oh, I'm sure that they were happy with the Phantom.

Name one country whose airmen liked the 104 in the role it was forced into in Europe. I can assure you that the name I grew up with in Canada was CF-104 Widowmaker.

Sure, the air brass were officially happy, and didnt admit their mistakes, but the reputation of the plane elsewhere was mud.

Yes, the F104 was a great plane in the RÔLE IT WAS DESIGNED FOR, namely high altitude, high speed interceptor. That it could function at all as low speed ground support, is surprising. That it was less than stellar in that rôle is not.

Italy and Spain. And it was never meant to be a CAS aircraft. It was a strike and Recce aircraft. Its role was to drop nukes on WarPact Armoured Units or fire Anti Ship Missiles at Soviet Warships. NATO Nations using it had dedicated CAS aircraft, mostly the Fiat G91.
 
Two world wars. Each time featuring submarine warfare that nearly strangled the economy and starved the nation. And this wasn't enough to convince them that subs are a threat to the shipping their lives depend on? The ghosts from the Battle of the Atlantic are spinning in their watery graves right now, I'd say.

They shoudn't. There is currently no hostile submarine threat. The Russian fleet is reduced to bastion defence, if they can still handle that, and there are no hostile submarine fleets left that can operate close to Britain.
 

abc123

Banned
Regarding nimrod, IMO UK should from the start be part of P-8 Poseidon program, like the F-35...;)
 
Regarding nimrod, IMO UK should from the start be part of P-8 Poseidon program, like the F-35...;)

I don't think the P-8 programme had started when Britain chose MRA4, IIRC the alternative was upgraded Orions. Airbus was promoting an A319 MPA about a decade ago and certainly from a perspective of UK jobs that might have been a better option than Poseidon but it seems to have been dropped for lack of interest. Certainly there's no shortage of options for MPA, there's hints on various defence forums that after 2015 we may adapt the RAF's Sentinels or Hercules' to carry out the more mundane duties such as fishery protection and SAR while in the future getting a P-8 squadron for high end work. That would be a very logical solution and that's precisely why I don't think it will happen. :mad:
 
There could be a European MPA based on an Airbus to compete with the P8. it would end up expensively delayed, but bought by all countries currently with a piece of the airbus action, even if they have no need for a MPA...
 
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