WI: No Eurofighter Typhoon?
- Thread starter abc123
- Start date
Oh, I'm sure that they were happy with the Phantom.
Name one country whose airmen liked the 104 in the role it was forced into in Europe. I can assure you that the name I grew up with in Canada was CF-104 Widowmaker.
Sure, the air brass were officially happy, and didnt admit their mistakes, but the reputation of the plane elsewhere was mud.
Yes, the F104 was a great plane in the RÔLE IT WAS DESIGNED FOR, namely high altitude, high speed interceptor. That it could function at all as low speed ground support, is surprising. That it was less than stellar in that rôle is not.
First point re the Starfighter: A lot of the problems that the Luftwaffe had with the Starfighter were caused by poor manufacturing and maintenance. IIRC German built Starfighters were fitted with hydraulic hoses bent to fit rather than curved in manufacture.
The Luftwaffe also suffered from having missed out on a whole generation of technicians between '45 and '55. Even after that joining the air force in the 50s and 60s it was never seen as a positive career choice for young people. They were assaulted with a very aggressive anti-nationalism from the first moment they could listen and read. A senior manager at Mercedes who I used to know swore blind that the best way to organise a military was to conscript the best brains and then let them get on with their lives. Not sure I agree with that.
Second point: The Luftwaffe loved their Phantoms and it was a very emotional day when the last one flew out of Wittmund a couple of months ago. I wouldn't be surprised if JG71 didn't adopt a black armband as part of their uniform. The main gripe for technicians about the Typhoon is that it isn't really a challenge to fix. You just take the defective assembly out, send it back to the factory for repair, and fit a new one.
gloster meteor mk3
Banned
Why is it a gripe to fix is it not better to fix a new part, I would of thought it would be a boon if the Germans were in a shooting match? It would be alot easier to fix than the F35 or the Rafael M.
I don't know what job you do, but I take great pride in being well trained and great satisfaction in being able to solve a problem in my area of work.
gloster meteor mk3
Banned
In a shooting war would it not be better use of time replacing the item you need from the stores than wasting time fixing a plane that could be up defending your home.
Technicians he said. Not airmen, not the Luftwaffe, not the Government, not the populace.
I had an ancestor who was a shoemaker proud of his work. Then factory made shoes came in. Rather than stay a shoemaker, doing semiskilled labour in his industry, producing cheap shoes, he emigrated. That sounds like an extreme version of what the Luftwaffe techs felt.
That would very much depend on one's logistical circumstances. However, it has nothing to do with my original point. I'm talking about a group of highly trained professionals taking pride in their work.
gloster meteor mk3
Banned
I never said anything about a group of highly trained aircraft techies but if they could fix an fighter in a hour depending on the part and sent on it,s way off to fight the techies could be doing something useful fixing another aircraft EG a tanker aircraft.
abc123
Banned
Yes, Germany and Canada had really horrendous numbers of crashes and accidents, but say Japan, Spain and Italy were pretty satisfied with them, they even served in Italy until 10 years ago.
If you use tank as Landing Craft it's normal that it will not end well...
Sorry I couldn't find the link, I'll continue searching but it was during the early years of the Eurofighter program and costs were rising. Germany was considering pulling out of the project and the Gripen, being a cheap, single-engine fighter was their favored option if they chose to do so.
JSF, maybe? Meaning that the RAF would have to put more effort in to developing the multirole capabilities of the Typhoon. Though if that happened I'd have no idea what we'd put on the CVF, develop them as CATOBAR and go for the F-18 E/F?
They would likely cancel some of the RN procurement programs like the Astute-class, CVFs, and T45s. The RN is the political whipping boy after all.
deathscompanion1
Banned
Political?
I thought it was purely a treasury affair, I'm pretty sure they have motivational posters saying 'The Royal Navy still has one ship larger than a dingy capable of leaving the Thames. Do better!'
gloster meteor mk3
Banned
A really shitty idea. when we scrapped them the next day a Russian sub was found 5 miles off our coast because the Americans who were charged to protect our waters with a AWACS type aircraft did not turn up. What was worse is the Russian sub was a missile boat now if the captain fired his missiles we would have less than FIVE minutes to react.
abc123
Banned
a) AWACS doesn't track submarines
b) UK would had about 5-10 min. to react with Nimrod or without, even if they fire them from Murmansk
c) AFAIK Nimrod was prettty shi*** aircraft for finding submarines, in the exercises they never managed to find one
Also, cancelling of Nimrod MRA4could actually be the blessing in disguise, at least UK won't waste 5-6 bln. USD and never get any operational aircraft.
gloster meteor mk3
Banned
to find ships and have a lot of luck doing so plus you can find subs if you train your crews what to look for, the periscope for example does give off a radar return, the snorkel on a diesel electric boat again does give off a return but you would need a very good crew or a techie gets lucky.