WI: No domestic horse

I hope this a new fresh take on the topic. I read about a possible solution for these discussed problems in another thread on the board. The Link http://sportscastercards.com/sports...tion=details&where_field=ID&where_value=27-08 says they were using Wind Chariots even back in ancient egypt. So there is an available fast way to transport people which isnt based on animals and breeding but on advanced technology. This might lead to an interesting different world, Sailing Wank anyone?

750px-Simon_Stevins_zeilwagen_voor_Prins_Maurits_1649.jpg
 
I find it interesting that i cannot find confirmation for the first vehicle mentioned. Internet source for the second are thin. The closest i can find is:
<<The Xu Shi Shuo [Hsu Shih Shuo] (Continuation of the New Discourses on the Talk of the Times) of AD 1157 says: "Yuwen Kai [Yuwen Khai] built for Sui Yangdi [Sui Yang Ti] a 'Mobile Wind-Facing Palace' (kuan feng hsing tien); it carried guards on its upper deck, and there was room for several hundred persons to circulate in it. Below there were wheels and axles, and when pushed along it moved quite easily as if by the help of spirits. Among those who saw it there was no one who was not amazed.">>
http://books.google.com/books?id=Peh...ace%22&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=SeG...palace&f=false

From that, it's supposition, though not particularly far-fetched, that this thing is actually sail-powered. After all, there was a later South Pointing Chariot that had nothing to do with solar power, yet the same kind of creative reading that would lead to saying so is the same needed to change the above quote into sail power. In other words, possible but not conclusive. Frankly, i have heaps of skepticism about historical information that comes from enthusiast books like the one you quoted because, among other reasons, they're not exactly impartial being, y'know, enthusiasts and so are likely to paint their hobby in the best possible light. In this case, my skepticism begins to erode when i run into:
<<About 550 AD, the Liang Emperor Luan (552-4, a Taoist scholar, wrote his Book of the Golden Hall Master. In it he recorded: "Kaots'ang Wu-Shu succeeded in making a wind-driven carriage which could carry thirty men, and in a single day could travel several hundred li [hundreds of miles].>>
http://books.google.com/books?id=6FV...ed=0CD4Q6AEwBA

Simon Stevin's sail wagons are fairly well known, but assuming all of the above are true, one thing stands out, these were toys that were never ever put to practical use.

And then i find this:




FWIW, IIRC, Phileas Fogg used a sail wagon in the American West in Around the World in Eighty Days.

So, regarding the practicality of sail wagons, they can obviously carry fair sized loads. I'd estimate the Stevin's wagon is carrying at least 3,000 lbs. That's good, but there's one thing we're missing. Wind isn't constant. Force varies, direction varies. With the right tech, direction ceases to be a problem, but a calm day would play havoc with trade. I think you'd also need a relatively open area to operate a wind wagon. I could see wind wagons filling certain roles, but they wouldn't dominate any except in certain areas in certain seasons and even then how many merchants or what have you will be willing to invest in two sets of wagons so they can take advantage of better sailing seasons and still be able to move in calmer seasons. Sailing would also require teamsters to more fit and skilled than those using oxen. If sailing did become big, that would have interesting economic implications, as there would be a reduction in agricultural land and labor devoted to livestock and their feed.
 
I just realised something that makes my preceding post a bit silly. Horses weren't used much for wagon type stuff until circa 1200, when horse collars came into wide use, so wind wagons wouldn't come in until then as a result of horses disappearing, unless in a very limited way.
 

Stephen

Banned
Reindeer and cammels can also be ridden but are a bit specialised to there climates and not very suitable for battle. Oxen can be outrun by man. No predator is suitable for ridding and would be completely unecconomical STOP THOSE THOUGHTS!

This is infantry wank. If you dont take any animals with you an army can actually march further in a day horses provide tactical mobility at the expence of strategic mobility.
 
Reindeer and cammels can also be ridden but are a bit specialised to there climates and not very suitable for battle. Oxen can be outrun by man. No predator is suitable for ridding and would be completely unecconomical STOP THOSE THOUGHTS!

This is infantry wank. If you dont take any animals with you an army can actually march further in a day horses provide tactical mobility at the expence of strategic mobility.



Never!!!!!!! Reindeeers and moose are like horses plus they have horns used as wepons oh yeah, let's see swordsmen stopping the charge of an 800 pound moose being ridden by a lancer, plus they can take more load then horses, never underestimate moose or carabou....
 
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