WI: No 'British Invasion'?

I discovered this. Someone kindly decode what influence it had. It had to have done something, as I can hear things that would seem to come later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_In_Sound_from_Way_Out!_%28Perrey_and_Kingsley_album%29

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On4O7k1-6A0

There's certainly a possibility that electronica develops earlier than OTL - especially if the band template that the Beatles set doesn't take-off.

A great example of this is the Silver Apples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYRE-kXPoXg

Perhaps in a "no British Invasion" timeline, we have more manufactured pop, and some of it uses electronic sounds?
 
Speaking of what I just linked, thinking on it, that may be the kind of sound that evolves into normality in this alternate reality. That being a kind of folk with psychedelic and garage rock thing. Not the only genre, of course, but a more common sound perhaps. (I don't think it was non-existent as it was).

EDIT:

On the topic of genre and popular music evolution, I do think it will have to break out of the confines it was placed in circa 1963, just before the Beatles did hit and the British Invasion followed. The British Invasion was what broke music out of those confines in the OTL, but it seems like there would have to be something else that would do that in a few years anyway. Nothing artistic ever exists within limitations. That's why Folk evolved into Folk Rock: artists got tired of not being allowed to go into certain territory, of having to have a certain way of dressing, of only dealing with certain subject matter, and so forth. That's why Glam Rock died; it burned itself out and became a parody at a certain point.
And there's the factor of backlash as well. We have gone into the fact that the first generation of Rock n' Roll was largely taken out by the late 50s, and Rock had become all too much label controlled with artificially created artists pumping out singles about girls and cars for quick teen money. It's the Dark Age of Rock. That's not fair because there still was a lot of good content, and there still were artists who were very good, but there certainly was that proto-boy band element of astroturf artists. That doesn't seem like it can exist forever. I think people would have backlashed against it or increasingly ignored those artists and groups, and that they'd go to other groups that weren't astroturf, possibly like how Indie Rock and groups in it like R.E.M surged in popularity in reaction to the 80s Glam Rock and Hair Metal (etc) Rock scene of the 80s. Or rather than an insurrection from the Indie, it could just be someone else being discovered.

I'll bring up Folk, which could have still evolved into Folk Rock and infused into the alternate American Rock sound from there. And Garage Rock is a possibility as well, which would mix in with the American Rock scene and eventually blend into that mixing pot. And then it evolves from there.

On another topic, I also think Black artists and genres could do better in this alternate scene compared to the OTL (and those genres were big in the OTL nonetheless).
 
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On another topic, I wonder at how the Single and Album dynamic fares in this alternate timeline. In the early days, what mattered was the single, and the non-single tracks on an album were just more or less filler much of the time. As the 60s went on, it became that the album was no longer just fluff around the singles but that the non-single album tracks could be good themselves and were worked on themselves, and the album content became more than fluff. And the album became very important in itself, and was an expression of art in itself. And as you get into the 70s, you get things like the Album-Oriented stations, which focus on tracks from albums and don't just play the singles.

That could still come about, or it could not. It depends on the alternate evolution. To brink up Folk and the topic of it merging into Rock and all that, I think that could be what leads to a similar situation. Folk was all about depth and substance so it makes sense that it would influence the album to become important and all that, ala the OTL. I think the force working against that would be Garage Rock. Maybe Folk could influence Garage Rock to follow suit in its influences on the overall Rock sound.

I'd like to note as well that while I have brought up Folk Rock still evolving and being a major American sound and influence on the overall Rock sound, I'm not sure if you'd get something like the Byrds. I think it would be less "jingle-jangley" minus the Beatles and their influence on creating the Byrds sound.
 
It would actually be a lot harder for it not to happen, what with the growing mass media and the lack of a language barrier.
 
It would actually be a lot harder for it not to happen, what with the growing mass media and the lack of a language barrier.

Possibly, but bear in mind in 1963, Britain was not a thing that it was expected from whatsoever when this burst happened. It was like if West Germany suddenly dominated the American and world charts and were the big music makers (...and spoke English).
 
On the way home, I noticed fuzz on the radio. That made me think, did distortions and errors of era technologies inspire directions and innovations? Fuzz leading to fuzzy guitar (leading to metal and hard rock). And in what areas may those go?
 
Who on this forum was around before 1964? I'm curious for any first hand input on the way music was going just before the British hit, and how it looked like it would turn out just before they hit.
 
Who on this forum was around before 1964? I'm curious for any first hand input on the way music was going just before the British hit, and how it looked like it would turn out just before they hit.
I was around and listening to RnR in '64. I was 12 years old, but had two older sisters that had rock n roll music on constantly. Hank Williams Jr and I have something in common. My friend's first name is Randall, and he says that at night, and around his mom, he was Hank Jr.; while during the day, playing music with his friends from school, he was "Rockin' Randall". So it was for me. In the evening we listening to country, but during the day it was rock and roll. :D

The first RnR was American was as American as Carl Perkins, Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley, Fats Domino, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Gene Vincent, Buddy Holley and Elvis Presley. I received my first guitar in 1964, and I didn't want to be Elvis; I wanted to be Elvis's guitar player, the amazingly talented Scotty Moore, who's currently 81. The roll stopped for a bit in the late '50s when Elvis went into the Army and Buddy Holley died in a plane crash; taking the seat of my real hero, who played bass guitar for him in those days, the late great Waylon Jennings.;) There was a lull, then there was Chubby Checker and the beginning of soul and the girl groups gaining traction. Being raised in California I had a gift from above in the form of The Ventures and The Beach Boys. When the British Invasion hit, it saved the world from the likes of Pat Boone.:(

I was not that impressed with The Beatles at first, who I saw on the Ed Sullivan Show, with my sisters going nuts in the background. I was not as impressed I was when The Rolling Stones made their American debut. They had a harsher, more in your face style, and that attracted me. I was attrracted more by The Who when they hit with their rough edges and anti-establishment sound.

I'll come back and say a bit more, but I have to meet a Lady at 11:00.:D:p:p
 
I remember watching a documentary on "Big Daddy" Ed Roth on Hulu some time ago (and it may no longer be available), and one of the things covered in the documentary is that before the British Invasion, all the guys were into cars and building cars and hot rods. At least on the West coast. When the British Invasion hit, all those guys became interested in music, and used their garages for their bands instead of cars.

So maybe that scene holds on for longer, even if it can't hold on permanently. Or maybe it holds on a bit more compared to how it fared in actuality.
 
Another thesis:

The public and musical artists gravitate to music similar to the kinds of music they've heard before and like, and songs are written to be similar. However, in those similar sounding songs or rather songs created with an intent to sound similar to other songs, there are differences, uniquenesses and things that have not been done before. Music evolves (gradually) as a result of those new features also in turn being mimicked. And it is a process which plays out over again, ad infinitum.

(I had this written down better somewhere, but I can't find my note)

***

On another topic, I think Soul and Blue-Eyed Soul could do better in this situation. Not that they were lacking as it was.
 
Another thesis:

The Beatles psychedelia owes more to the Goon Show than San Francisco. It was zany, and had a sense of whimsy and especially humor, and evolved from a British humor that permeated the Beatles career even before that, and was a heavy part of their charm. Hence, the surreality of the Beatles during the psychedelic period, ranging roughly from "Revolver" to "Magical Mystery Tour", came from a humor sensibility in their personalities which went into their music. It's like if Monty Python were transmogrified from a comedic series and troupe into music.

So I do wonder at the effect on psychedelia without them. Then again, it is important to note that other groups did exist, and their sound did exist. With Beatles people, we too often begin and end the world with the Beatles. That Beatles also came into psychedelia after it was already going.
 
Another thesis:

The Beatles psychedelia owes more to the Goon Show than San Francisco. It was zany, and had a sense of whimsy and especially humor, and evolved from a British humor that permeated the Beatles career even before that, and was a heavy part of their charm. Hence, the surreality of the Beatles during the psychedelic period, ranging roughly from "Revolver" to "Magical Mystery Tour", came from a humor sensibility in their personalities which went into their music. It's like if Monty Python were transmogrified from a comedic series and troupe into music.

So I do wonder at the effect on psychedelia without them. Then again, it is important to note that other groups did exist, and their sound did exist. With Beatles people, we too often begin and end the world with the Beatles. That Beatles also came into psychedelia after it was already going.

Psychedelia has many branches - assuming it still develops in this timeline, you could have anything from classical-influenced proto-prog to acid-drenched garage rock filling the void left by The Beatles. I'm tempted to think the UK may have more jazz & classical music-incluenced bands as 'proper' musicians co-opt ideas from rock'n'roll and produce domestic hits - I'm thinking along the lines of Keith Emerson's work with The Nice before he broke away to form ELP.
 
A thought came to my head a while ago. And it's not more than a thesis I could toss out if it doesn't work out.

The British Invasion sort of wiped out the Surf Rock scene, since everyone started doing material like the Beatles. Without it, that should survive. Whether it evolves as it did (see Beach Boys) is for later discussion. The idea that came to my head was Surf Rock managing to (continue to) make it as a music listened to on a nation-wide scale, which at the same time is a regional music in the same fashion as Country music.

I never really understood Surf Rock's appeal to the audience outside of California and the West Coast, because it is Californian. It deals with topics someone in New York is not going to be dealing with. No one Surfs in Cincinnati. And it talks incessantly about a very limited range of topics. Not to say every song with a Surf Rock sound is like that, but most I know of are, and it makes me wonder at the appeal beyond a niche. Say what you will about love songs; at least it's versatile and you can get your mileage out of love. Talking about how much you like your hot rod has only so much usability before it gets dull.

That probably explains why it fell away and gave way to the West Coast psychedelic scene.
 
A thought came to my head a while ago. And it's not more than a thesis I could toss out if it doesn't work out.

The British Invasion sort of wiped out the Surf Rock scene, since everyone started doing material like the Beatles. Without it, that should survive. Whether it evolves as it did (see Beach Boys) is for later discussion. The idea that came to my head was Surf Rock managing to (continue to) make it as a music listened to on a nation-wide scale, which at the same time is a regional music in the same fashion as Country music.

I never really understood Surf Rock's appeal to the audience outside of California and the West Coast, because it is Californian. It deals with topics someone in New York is not going to be dealing with. No one Surfs in Cincinnati. And it talks incessantly about a very limited range of topics. Not to say every song with a Surf Rock sound is like that, but most I know of are, and it makes me wonder at the appeal beyond a niche. Say what you will about love songs; at least it's versatile and you can get your mileage out of love. Talking about how much you like your hot rod has only so much usability before it gets dull.

That probably explains why it fell away and gave way to the West Coast psychedelic scene.

Surf music could be the basis for anything really.. just as the British Invasion evolved from a straightforward rock'n'roll starting point in OTL.

Eventually some surf bands are going to break away from the "short songs about waves, cars and girls" template, and explore uncharted territory.

For example there were plenty of surf instrumentals, so you could see some bands reduce the lyrical content and move towards extended instrumentals (Heavy Surf, anyone?)

You could even have some sort of Surf rock-derived equivalent to the mod subculture in this timeline.. all it would take is a few influences from the world of soul & R'n'B - surely Booker T & The MGs would still exist in this TL, right?
 
California in the 1960s

I'm glad to see that this forum is rising up again. I always enjoy pop culture timelines, especially those that have to do with 60s music.

Flippikat, I am wondering if we are forgetting how much of a utopia California (esp. Southern California) was in the 1960s. Although the Mamas and the Papas might be butterflied in this TL, "California Dreaming" is still relevant, so Surf Rock would probably appeal to people looking for a way out of the gray-skied world.

It might also appeal to teenage girls, too, as the Beatles were not only "White Boys Playing R&B" but also the object of many girls' crushes. While it might be great to see Johnny Cash or Frank Zappa or Stephen Stills or Levon Helm (and his Band of Canadians) earn more or even more acclaim, it's hard to see them replacing Paul, George, Ringo, or even John on a young girl's wall. And back in the mid-60s, it probably would be dangerous for Marvin or Smokey to be on a young white girl's wall.

OTOH, increased popularity of Surf Rock instrumentals pleases me as I have always been a fan of Zally Yanovsky (the Lovin' Spoonful's ingenious lead guitarist and a man with a very limited vocal range). Perhaps this is where Peter Tork or Roger McGuinn could end up, too. Or Richard Thompson (if the trend lasts long enough).
 
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I'm glad to see that this forum is rising up again. I always enjoy pop culture timelines, especially those that have to do with 60s music.

Flippikat, I am wondering if we are forgetting how much of a utopia California (esp. Southern California) was in the 1960s. Although the Mamas and the Papas might be butterflied in this TL, "California Dreaming" is still relevant, so Surf Rock would probably appeal to people looking for a way out of the gray-skied world.

Oh, for sure.. the Californian scene will still be generally positive - and it'll still have it's appeal because of it - but each city will still put their spin on the music.

I think one thing's for sure, though.. sooner or later you're going to have white, middle-class bands taking influence from r'n'b & blues - just that in this TL, it might take a little longer for the American bands to make that jump without the Brits showing them the way.

Sure there was the odd Chuck Berry lick here and there, but I'm talking about deep blues & soul styles like the early Rolling Stones, Who & Small Faces.

Whether it be some perceived racial taboo, or just being too self-conscious.. I can't see many white American bands making that leap quickly.

It it's most extreme, it may have huge implications on the development of hard rock & heavy metal - considering that in OTL they were developed out of the blues boom.

It's hard to imagine heavy guitar music without a blues base, but heavily amplified country/bluegrass.. or classical.. or experimental/avant garde rock may emerge more strongly.
 
Blues Without the British Invasion

Well, Flippikat, we haven't butterflied the Civil Rights Movement...or the Chicago blues scene--that I know of. (The Paul Butterfield Blues Band was formed in 1963. Here's a link to his Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Butterfield -- and judging from this picture, his band had both white and African-American members. )

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/.../PaulButterfieldBluesBand-East-West-front.jpg

I'm not sure how this approach will filter down to the young white girls and the empty spaces on their bedroom walls, though.

Perhaps this time line's Monkees would be an all-white blues band or a white version of the Temptations (assuming that the blues influence is not all that mainstream but Motown continues to be).
 
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