WI: No British Aid to USSR?

abc123

Banned
So, let's say that Britain and USSR are still allies in WW2, but Britain decides that they need all those aircrafts, tanks, trucks etc. for their own units ( North Africa, preparations for second front, Torch etc. ) and that they can't spare any for Soviets?
What would be the consequences?
The Americans OFC continue with their Land-Lease as OTL?
 
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Cook

Banned
Well, it’d mean more tanks and aircraft for North Africa, they might even divert some to Malaya before the Japanese attack, although that would be pretty unlikely regardless of how many tanks and Hurricanes were available.

With regard to impact on the Soviets, well the tanks the British sent were useless and the aircraft were underutilised, so probably not a great deal of difference there.
 

abc123

Banned
Well, it’d mean more tanks and aircraft for North Africa, they might even divert some to Malaya before the Japanese attack, although that would be pretty unlikely regardless of how many tanks and Hurricanes were available.

With regard to impact on the Soviets, well the tanks the British sent were useless and the aircraft were underutilised, so probably not a great deal of difference there.

So, from British point of view, it would be the smartest thing to keep them for themselves? Except as sign of alliance with Soviets...
 
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The American lend lease material was, lets face it, much more important to the Soviets than what the British could spare. This would do more to help the British than it would hurt the Soviets.
 

sharlin

Banned
But at the cost of utterly enraging stalin. Without the US in the war we had to show we was doing something to help and the convoys were that, even if as was said, the tanks were not popular, the aircraft underused and our rifles and uniforms laughed at.

US Lend Lease was FAR more important to the survival of the Soviet Union, not that you'll ever have them admit that back then and probably not even now.
 
Agreed. There seems to be a consensus that the only thing the British aid to USSR was good for was increasing morale in Russia ("Look, we haven't forgotten you" etc). It was the US aid that was the main help for the Russian's, especially things like trains and trucks, as then the Russian's could focus on tank production.


On the reverse of that, it is only of benefit to Britain if the aid isn't sent. The first convoy alone transported 15 crated Hawker Hurricanes, 24 Hurricanes flown off the carrier Argus and tons of raw materials. The second convoy transported 20 tanks, 193 crated Hurricanes and tons of resources.

Those 2 convoys alone would have been far better off being diverted to the Middle East and Egypt, or even held in Britain before being sent to the Far East only 2 months later
 

sharlin

Banned
True but as you said we needed to be shown to at least be trying to help our newest ally against the Nazi's. Could we have used those resources? Too bloody right we could have, but to do nothing when our Goverment said we would help would piss Stalin off no end. We couldn't do nothing from a political sense even when keeping the stuff we sent made more sense from a military sense.
 
sharlin said:
to do nothing when our Goverment said we would help
Britain is staying in the fight. Stalin was no fool. He might have been pissed, but it's not like he'd toss an alliance with Britain overboard because he wasn't getting a few shiploads of used Hurricanes or obsolete tanks.:rolleyes:
 

Cook

Banned
British aid was important to the Soviet Union, but the part consisting of military equipment; the food and resources sent by Britain may not have been as sexy, but it was far more critical.

Stalin’s comment concerning the British tanks shipped to the Soviet Union was succinct: “Tell Churchill to stop sending us British tanks, they are shit!”
 

hipper

Banned
British aid to the Soviet Union

The first shipments of British weapons arrived in the Soviet Union just as the Germans were at the gates of Moscow and the Red army was weaker relative to the Ostheer than at any time during world war 2 IMHO it was critical and may have played a crucial part in the Moscow battles.

A pity since the addition of an army tank brigade in Malaya and a hurricane wing would have made a considerable difference.

Cheers hipper
 
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