WI: No Apollo 1 Fire?

Say the Astronauts smell the milk smell in the capsule just in time, and just barely make it out of the capsule alive before it's consumed in flame.

What happens next?
Is there still an investigation which slows down NASA? Are safety procedures which ensued in the OTL stifled? What happens because of a living Gus Grissom, Ed White, and Roger Chaffee?
 

Thande

Donor
I've thought about the question before. I tend to think the accident being avoided early on means a worse one happening later on at a more critical stage and then everything being delayed and redesigned at a key moment in the race for the moon. Maybe enough to give the Soviets a fighting chance of staying in the race, though that's more questionable.
 
I think the safety modifications will still happen, and the three astronauts will probably make it to the Moon. (I'm not sure about the astronaut rotation schedule though, so don't take this for granted.)

And while I'm not an expert on the Space Race, from what I've heard the Soviet programs was so inherently flawed that it could never work.
 

Thande

Donor
Oh, I misread the OP: if the accident still happens but the astronauts escape, no real change except the first man on the moon may not be Neil Armstrong (and the other roster of Apollo astronauts will also change but no-one even remembers them but us space nuts anyway).
 
Oh, I misread the OP: if the accident still happens but the astronauts escape, no real change except the first man on the moon may not be Neil Armstrong (and the other roster of Apollo astronauts will also change but no-one even remembers them but us space nuts anyway).

Gus Grissom will be the first man on the moon. That was planned to happen to connect the old Mercury astronauts to the future Apollo astronauts.
 
What about Buzz Aldrin? He's been pretty active with support for various space-related activities so there could be some butterflies if not getting onto Apollo 11 defenestrates his name recognition.
 
More accidents will happened, accidents are inevitable because of design flaws of the Apollo Command Capsule due to urgent preparation to meet the goal of JFK that by 1969, a human can step foot in the Moon. Who knows that during the Moon landing will have an accident and all crews will die in space.
 
I've thought about this before, and I think that for the fire to happen, and the astronauts escape, is probably the BEST case scenario Apollo can have.:) With no fire, Apollo flies (maybe) with lots of flaws, and several extra flights are needed. The Apollo that Schirra flew was much improved. All you have to do, I think, is for the spacecraft to have an explosive hatch. Unfortunately, that requires a fairly early POD, unless somebody high up thinks of and demands it as a modification, probably over Gus's objections.
 
Say the Astronauts smell the milk smell in the capsule just in time, and just barely make it out of the capsule alive before it's consumed in flame.

What happens next?
Is there still an investigation which slows down NASA? Are safety procedures which ensued in the OTL stifled? What happens because of a living Gus Grissom, Ed White, and Roger Chaffee?

in that case: Gus Grissom had canceld the Test, he and the other get out capsul and NASA made unmanned version of test wat goes up in flame...
after that the investigating committee led by Gus Grissom
only to find out wat North American Aviation (Rockwell) build for a dangerous death trap called Apollo Block I CSM
that no joke there had found in remains of Apollo 1 forgotten tool INSIDE instrument pack
allrady before the fatal test Grissom, White, Chaffee made complaint about the Apollo CM
(CM-012 was delivered to NASA with 113 significant incomplete planned engineering changes. 623 more engineering orders were made after delivery)

they made this Foto:
A1prayer.jpg


i believe that Gus Grissom after end of investigating committee, take decision to retire from NASA...
 
Well all of the safety engineering and engineering good practice for large complex systems that were developed and/or applied in the wake of the Apollo disaster won't happen. As a result of which it is a fair bet that the systems on both Apollo and Saturn V are far, far less reliable and well understood as a complete system than they were in OTL. This would make the probability of a second accident quite likely. If that accident happens when the USA is close to a moon landing then it is unlikely that NASA will be willing to lengthen the schedule in order to sort these problems out systemically instead they will fix the details. Thus a second disaster is very likely during one of the acutail moon landings. We may get people dying on the moon.

In general the effects of this are going to be very negative. Systems engineering and safety engineering are going to be far less developed especially in aviation. One positive point the Soviets may feel justified in continuing their own moon programme. I really could not guess where the US space programme would go. I suspect Apollo would end in a bit of a shambles with even less follow on than in OTL.
 
i believe that Gus Grissom after end of investigating committee, take decision to retire from NASA...

That's what I thought too. Deke may want to have one of the Seven first on the moon, but if Gus and Wally retire, and Al is still having dizzy spells, he may have no choice. If Gus retires, Schirra's crew may still fly the first Apollo (probably called Apollo 2), and-maybe Ed White commands the first landing?
 
i believe that Gus Grissom after end of investigating committee, take decision to retire from NASA...

I don't think so. Grissom was also a design engineer who was part of the team that designed space crafts. His expertise would add to the battery of knowledge to make it to the moon. He barely escaped a sinking Mercury capsule in 1961. That did not stop him and this fire would not either.
 
Well all of the safety engineering and engineering good practice for large complex systems that were developed and/or applied in the wake of the Apollo disaster won't happen. As a result of which it is a fair bet that the systems on both Apollo and Saturn V are far, far less reliable and well understood as a complete system than they were in OTL. This would make the probability of a second accident quite likely. If that accident happens when the USA is close to a moon landing then it is unlikely that NASA will be willing to lengthen the schedule in order to sort these problems out systemically instead they will fix the details. Thus a second disaster is very likely during one of the acutail moon landings. We may get people dying on the moon.

The premise here, though, is that the disaster does happen (despite the title); the astronauts just aren't inside at the time (and Norton says they "just barely get out"). So perhaps it creates less urgency, but OTOH Grissom and Deke are friends (?), or at least have a positive working relationship, and they're pretty powerful inside NASA, so it seems pretty likely a lot of the stuff done IOTL gets done ITTL. Just Grissom commands the landing, instead of Armstrong.
 
The premise here, though, is that the disaster does happen (despite the title); the astronauts just aren't inside at the time (and Norton says they "just barely get out"). So perhaps it creates less urgency, but OTOH Grissom and Deke are friends (?), or at least have a positive working relationship, and they're pretty powerful inside NASA, so it seems pretty likely a lot of the stuff done IOTL gets done ITTL. Just Grissom commands the landing, instead of Armstrong.

Historically speaking major engineering projects very rarely undergo major revisions and reworks unless people start dying in clearly visible ways cf Tay Bridge disaster and Piper-A or it is brought to the public question in some other way. If the astronauts don't die, the engineers will fix the details not the systematic problems in the project.
 
Historically speaking major engineering projects very rarely undergo major revisions and reworks unless people start dying in clearly visible ways cf Tay Bridge disaster and Piper-A or it is brought to the public question in some other way. If the astronauts don't die, the engineers will fix the details not the systematic problems in the project.

But since they very nearly did die, there would be major changes. Just look at Apollo 13.

So who would accompany Gus Grissom on Apollo 11? Would it still be Buzz Aldrin?
 
Historically speaking major engineering projects very rarely undergo major revisions and reworks unless people start dying in clearly visible ways cf Tay Bridge disaster and Piper-A or it is brought to the public question in some other way. If the astronauts don't die, the engineers will fix the details not the systematic problems in the project.

...And three astronauts getting out in the nick of time is not bringing it to the public attention? This makes two times Grissom has nearly died in the space program, and the second time on a capsule that everyone on the crew thought even before the fire was a deathtrap in waiting. I really, really, really doubt that this doesn't lead to significant, systemic changes in the Apollo program.

(Anyways there were significant risks in the Apollo program that weren't properly mitigated against (solar flare/radiation risks), so the success of the program is actually rather a matter of luck, even IOTL)
 
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