WI: no 9/11?

How would the world be different without a 9/11 both within the U.S. And internationally?

In the U.S., culture wise, things in the early to mid 200s go more or less the same way as it did in the '90s. Economically, the economy is still gonna be in recession in 2001 and will probably stay stagnant until mid 2003 as it did OTL, all the corporate scandals of the early 2000's, Enron in particular, get more attention than they did OTL. The Bush Presidency is more domestic oriented, the Democrats retake congress in 2002, Bush probably loses in 2004 (though it'll be close), the GOP wins back one or both houses of congress in 2006, and win back the White house in 2008. 2010 probably goes Democratic and 2012 TTL is a mystery to me.

Internationally, Iraq is uninvaded, (at least uninvaded in 2003), as does Afghanistan, so the mid east isn't as big of a mess as it has been over the last decade or so, and the U.S. probably has a better standing and more credibility in the world as a result of no Iraq war.
 
I am also curious about what the cause and effect for there not being any attacks? If its because they are simply not carried out, then it may be a funding issue or recruitment?

Or if its because the plan was foiled, then there is a policy altercation in which the knowledge of the previous administration works with the new one and acted on the threat.
 
The problem with 9/11 is that it acted as an excuse for every Neoconservative thing the Bush administration wanted to enact. War with Iraq and removal of the existing government in that country was already something the administration wanted. What 9/11 did was act as an excuse for having it, and getting support behind it. Without 9/11, the Bush administration would still seek it. The support it would get is another matter.

You'd also avoid a period of "rallying around the flag" and explosive patriotism. It offered popular support to the administration and Conservatism. It lead to de facto opposition to dissent and anything uncomfortable in the wake of those attacks, even without de jure punishment for it. You had radio stations asking certain music not be played. You had films changed last minute (no Twin Towers in Spider-Man, the editing of the film Collateral Damage, etc). There was a lot of stuff. That early 2000s period would more resemble the 1990s. In reflection, it was a weird period. There was also the lambasting of Islam in the wake of the attacks which still lasts today, and public attacks on Muslims or suspected Muslims. That was, for example, unfortunate for Sikhs. Their religion is potentially the only actual religion of peace, and there are stories of Sikhs being attacked after being mistaken for Muslims. You also had Christopher Hitchens support Neoconservative international policy, which was unfortunate. And 9/11 may be the reason for the explosion of atheism in the United States in the years since.

To put it in simplest terms, thing of everything colored by 9/11 and replace it with a sense of normality.
 
In 2000, American politicians were earnestly discussing ways of completely paying down the national debt within twenty years. Bush's tax cuts will still undermine this, but not nearly to the extent they would have done concurrently with two savagely expensive wars and occupation efforts.

Without 9/11, "irrational exuberance" continues. Someone develops an extremely expensive "flying car" to play above traffic with.

Airline travel is a bit less terribly unpleasant.
 
No 9/11

This keeps American spying more secretive .. It's going to happen.. The technology and temptation are just to tempting .. However it may not be so utterly invasive on the domestic front.

Recession continues for another year or so.. But rebounds ...
Bush is one off and done

Americas reputation isn't so tarnished...
The whole police state thing is not taking place
14 trillion is not spent and hopefully is spent domestically on much needed infrastructure improvements as well as funding for education...

Putin won't get his grand lets American ideas ... Might not even stage his second coming as the world is bonkers and distracted ...

The internet continues its all invasive take over .. The cultural devise between poor and rich continues as we have had.. This is inevitable with out some form of plan to deal with the despairity in skill sets between the pre tech generations and the modern agile approach.

Extremism doesn't become mainstream in America ..
I think calmer minds will prevail over the Hawks and others with out a significant threat to back them.

Overall America is in a better position financially and morally to deal with its own house .. The rest of the world is more stable as Islamic fundamentalism is still kept under the kettle by the strongmen
 
Without 9/11, there would be no Bush doctrine. But there might still be the terrorist attacks in Bali, Djerba, the Moscow theatre siege and the Beslan massacre. It would be strange to see the European, Russian and Asian reactions to this without the Bush doctrine. Possibly Putin will declare something like a "war on terror" with a more open anti-Islam stance (regarding the situation in Chechnya in the early 2000s).

A curious case are the Madrid and London bombings. It is generally believed that those cities were chosen for Spain and Britain's participation in the Iraq war, which might not have happened without 9/11. So instead of chosing those cities, terrorist might try it somewhere else.

Instead of Huntington's "The Clash of Civilizations", the more popular books would probably be Oriana Fallaci's "The Rage and the Pride" (also a bestseller in OTL) and conspiracy stuff like Bat Ye'or's "Eurabia", because they focused on the European situation. The anti-Muslim right-wing parties might even be more popular, as they would point out that Europe, not America, is vulnerable to Islamic fundamentalism.

Without the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, the situation in the Middle East would also be very different. Would the Taliban fail, like the Hasan al-Turabi-influenced Islamist regime in Sudan, or would they become an early version of ISIS, including imperial ambitions? In Pakistan, Musharaf's regime would be much less stable without American support, possibly leading to another war after the New Delhi attacks of 2001. Ghadaffi probably would gamble a bit more with his own nuclear program, possibly making him (and not Saddam) the US' main enemy. I also think that without the "axis of evil"-speak, Israel and Syria might have a better shot at negotiations. After all, they became very close in 2000.
 
Much less American debt, American prestige is still much more intact in present day. The politics of the mideast will be dramatically different (no ISIL for starters). This is a big event to get rid of, the economic and geopolitical ramifications would be huge. Indeed 9/11 completely redefined how the US structured its foreign policy with everyone, meaning how the Americans reacted to a host of other situations in the 21st century would have been dramatically different than in OTL.
 
There is no war in Iraq or Afganistan. Sadaam and the Taliban are still in power. 2002 is a Democratic year. Bush is reelected in 2004. The economy was good. He does not have terrorism which was a positive for him. He does not have Iraq which was a negative for him. He still has the gay marriage referendums which helped him. 2006 is not such a Democratic landslide. 2008 is the same.
 
One you have to say where there was no 911 because as long as terrorists have bases all around Afghanistan you are going to see increasingly sophisticated attacks around the world anyway like we already were seeing in the late 90s and early 00s before 911.

In fact the big one when it comes might be worse in that case or if it doesn't happen because the Taliban and others booted them then you could get the nice outcomes people here are talking about.

But, terrorists with a safe base in a country even a backwater like Afghanistan are a military problem that a few airstrikes won't solve.
 
One you have to say where there was no 911 because as long as terrorists have bases all around Afghanistan you are going to see increasingly sophisticated attacks around the world anyway like we already were seeing in the late 90s and early 00s before 911.

In fact the big one when it comes might be worse in that case or if it doesn't happen because the Taliban and others booted them then you could get the nice outcomes people here are talking about.

But, terrorists with a safe base in a country even a backwater like Afghanistan are a military problem that a few airstrikes won't solve.


I had not considered a worse event instead of 9 11. The alleged plan to set off poison gas canisters on the NYC subways sounded horrific to me.
 
The world economy is in a slightly better place, america has less debt and over all the world is a better slightly more peaceful place.
 
I had not considered a worse event instead of 9 11. The alleged plan to set off poison gas canisters on the NYC subways sounded horrific to me.

Terrorists with a safe base in a country and unlimited time to plot and plan attacks is a prescription for disaster with growing lethality the more time they have there.

Basically you have to wipe away the Af-Pak region becoming a terror sanctuary.
 
1. No Great Recession
2. No war in Iraq
3. No war in Afghanistan
4. No Arab Spring
5. No series of regional wars in the Middle East
6. No Obama presidency
7. US national debt is considerably less than OTL
8. International fuel and energy prices considerably lower
9. George W. Bush is a one term President
 
According to Frontline (PBS-TV), prior to 9/11 Attorney General John Ashcroft was getting to launch. A "war on pornography ", with the aim to ban it from being transmitted for free, banning it at chain hotels and motels...,
 
1. No Great Recession

There would still be a Great Recession since that was slightly independent from 9/11. The Great Recession of 2008 was catalysed by the American housing bubble bursting.

And besides, recessions usually occur almost every decade or less anyway so it would be typical for the world to experience a recession sometime around the late-2000s to early 2010s.
 
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