WI: No 2004 Democratic Candidates?

Now, this is based off of Nofix's thread about Gore and Bush.

Okay, now let's say the following circumstances occur:

-John Kerry is killed in Vietnam.
-John Edwards is hit by a car in 1995.
- Howard Dean loses the Democratic Primary to be elected to the State House in 1982 (Let's say a different candidate enters)
- Dick Gephardt is drafted in Vietnam and is killed by a stray bullet.
- Dennis Kucinich loses election to the House of Representatives in 1996, and loses interest in politics.
- Wesley Clark gets killed in Vietnam.
- Joe Lieberman decides to retire in 2000 for some reason or another.
- Bob Graham retires six years earlier.
- Carol Moseley Braun loses to Alan Dixon in the 1992 Senate Democratic Primary.
- Al Sharpton doesn't run, can't think of another POD for him.

Alright, with literally everyone out, what butterflies will emerge? I imagine a lot, considering Kerry alone would be monumental.
 
You have so many butterflies at this point there is no telling what the 2004 Democratic field might definitively look like. :p
 
You have so many butterflies at this point there is no telling what the 2004 Democratic field might definitively look like. :p

Ugh, I know. The fact that they're the Candidates is irrelevent, I just want to see discussion on the butterflies that aren't just the 2004 election.
 
I'm glad I could inspire something.

I'm guessing Bradley might make another shot, although the massive amount of butterflies might mean the people in their place might make a big rise and take it themselves.
 

U.S David

Banned
I think the OP is asking what happens if the Democratic Party doesn't run anyone in 2004. Which I guess the Republicans win every state.


But thats not going to happen, they would find someone, and that someone would win some states.
 
You have so many butterflies at this point there is no telling what the 2004 Democratic field might definitively look like. :p

This. Kill off John Kerry, who was a senator for quite a while before his candidacy, and you free thousands of butterflies.
 
One of the reasons that John Kerry got the 04 nomination was he was a decorated veteran. America was at war and Dems thought Kerry could beat Bush. If John Kerry was not available, well former Senator and Governor Bob Kerrey of Nebraska was. Medal of Honor winner, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, disabled, lost right leg below the knee in a grenade blast . Had won 3 races (82, 88, 94) in a very red state before he retired in 2000. He had ran in 1992 for President. He did think about running both in 00 ( than backed Bradley) and 04 and decided against it.
 
Alright, with literally everyone out, what butterflies will emerge? I imagine a lot, considering Kerry alone would be monumental.

Um, Bush wins 50 states+DC? Republicans gain total control of Congress and the Senate, the governorships and statehouses? Karl Rove's Permanent Republican Majority™ for the rest of all time for the next two years at the least?

I really don't know what else to say since this seems to be the only answer you want with such a very narrow window.
 
People, I didn't intend for this to be about the election, but about the butterflies, like who becomes Mass. Senator instead of Kerry, stuff like that.
 
People, I didn't intend for this to be about the election, but about the butterflies, like who becomes Mass. Senator instead of Kerry, stuff like that.

The (narrow) runner-up to Kerry in the 1984 Democratic Senate primary in Massachusetts was Rep. Jim Shannon, who later served a term as Mass. AG.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Shannon

Other than that, as others said, I'm not sure what else to say about this scenario -- to many butterflies and unknowns.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Okay, as I understand it, you're using the list of 2004 Democratic candidates as a convenient list of people to bump off.
 
Okay. I'm not as well-researched on '04 as I'd like to be but let's try just to get a discussion going.

-John Kerry is killed in Vietnam.
A ridiculous amount of butterflies for such an unpopular presidential candidate. He was one of the leading Democratic veterans and it's hard to tell how things change without him besides opening new doors for others. The lack of a Kerry candidacy can potentially derail Obama's presidential hopes, since he was an early ally for him. If aforementioned James Shannon becomes Senator, he could have his own presidential ambitions by now.

-John Edwards is hit by a car in 1995.
I don't imagine there being many butterflies outside the national level, but even the biggest potential butterfly is knocked out of the park by everyone else dying. Maybe his wife finds someone new though.

- Howard Dean loses the Democratic Primary to be elected to the State House in 1982 (Let's say a different candidate enters)
Don't know who else becomes Governor of Vermont but whoever they are, they have the potential to become a presidential candidate themselves, so there is that.

- Dick Gephardt is drafted in Vietnam and is killed by a stray bullet.
The House Minority Leader position opens earlier and another Dem enters it. I'm not sure who, but it could elevate someone else to a similar national profile, creating butterflies. Not to mention his absence in '88 now...

- Dennis Kucinich loses election to the House of Representatives in 1996, and loses interest in politics.
He runs anyway, because he's Dennis Kucinich, but without a Wikipedia article to explain who the hell is, so he gets no votes.

- Wesley Clark gets killed in Vietnam.
Not touching this one.

- Joe Lieberman decides to retire in 2000 for some reason or another.
Lieberman's makes a gaffe and is forced to retire from the Senate to save face as a result. He considers a run in 2004 but forgoes it due to enjoying retirement. Still offers endorsements and junk though. Becomes an independent because it's a cool label when he continues defending Republican policies and Democrats turn on him.

- Bob Graham retires six years earlier.
Half-serious 'who the hell is Bob Graham?'. I know who he is, but in the context of 2000/2004 he's incredibly inconsequential and I've only ever seen him brought up as 'X needs a running mate who can win Florida. How about Bob Graham?'. IIRC he's fairly popular in his home state and all, but this isn't going to change as much as it would if he were alive.

'
- Carol Moseley Braun loses to Alan Dixon in the 1992 Senate Democratic Primary.
The state of Illinois collectively breathes a sigh of relief.

Anyway, in this case, here's the slate of potential candidates I see, if we trap national-level butterflies in a cage:
  • Fmr. Vice Pres. Al Gore (TN): Well, let's be honest here, in such a narrow field, he's got to be looking pretty appealing right now. He may not be charismatic and may be awkward, but hell, he's got experience and nearly won, right?
  • Sen. Bob Kerrey (NE): As mentioned by Duke 4, Kerrey is a Vietnam veteran and had strong credentials in red states, so he's a pretty strong contrast against Bush and Iraq. He's an elder statesman, and in such a weak field, he has strong potential to stand out.
  • Sen. Joe Biden (DE): He's charismatic, has an anti-war record, and can be pretty damn intelligent beneath all the grins and jokes. I'm still surprised he wasn't more speculated in 2004 - he could've been a hard hitter against Bush if he gave it a shot. (I largely attribute his failure in '08 to who he was up against.)
  • Fmr. Sen. Bill Bradley (NJ): As mentioned, he might dip back in with a field like this. Who's gonna beat him this time, Al G- oh. Right.
  • Sen. Hillary Clinton (NY): If the Democrats have literally nobody to offer, and if there's a 'draft Hillary' movement, she might forgo her campaign promise to serve a term in New York 'for the sake of the people and her country' or something.
  • Sen. Gary Hart (CO): A surprise sleeper, but he wanted to run in '04 OTL and he's still known in some circles for his foreign policy credit. He's a good campaigner and can be strong in a weak field.
  • Gov. Tom Vilsack (IO): He looks like a turtle and he's a protege of a certain Iowa senator. Give him a shot.
Honestly, I'm just imagining a lot of "My country clearly needs me" sort of attitudes springing up.
 
Maybe, after twelve years, Tom Harkin runs again. Or his fellow Iowan Tom Vilsack.

Or maybe whatever liberal Democrat gets elected US Senator from Massachusetts in 1984 in the absence of Kerry. (I am assuming that the Republican candidate, Ray Shamie, is just too conservative for Massachusetts, regardless of who the Democrats nominate.)
 
Maybe, after twelve years, Tom Harkin runs again. Or his fellow Iowan Tom Vilsack.

Or maybe whatever liberal Democrat gets elected US Senator from Massachusetts in 1984 in the absence of Kerry. (I am assuming that the Republican candidate, Ray Shamie, is just too conservative for Massachusetts, regardless of who the Democrats nominate.)

IIRC, Harkin was one of Kerry's top choices for a running mate OTL but Harkin pushed Tom Vilsack.
 
Anyway, in this case, here's the slate of potential candidates I see, if we trap national-level butterflies in a cage:
  • Fmr. Vice Pres. Al Gore (TN): Well, let's be honest here, in such a narrow field, he's got to be looking pretty appealing right now. He may not be charismatic and may be awkward, but hell, he's got experience and nearly won, right?
  • Sen. Bob Kerrey (NE): As mentioned by Duke 4, Kerrey is a Vietnam veteran and had strong credentials in red states, so he's a pretty strong contrast against Bush and Iraq. He's an elder statesman, and in such a weak field, he has strong potential to stand out.
  • Sen. Joe Biden (DE): He's charismatic, has an anti-war record, and can be pretty damn intelligent beneath all the grins and jokes. I'm still surprised he wasn't more speculated in 2004 - he could've been a hard hitter against Bush if he gave it a shot. (I largely attribute his failure in '08 to who he was up against.)
  • Fmr. Sen. Bill Bradley (NJ): As mentioned, he might dip back in with a field like this. Who's gonna beat him this time, Al G- oh. Right.
  • Sen. Hillary Clinton (NY): If the Democrats have literally nobody to offer, and if there's a 'draft Hillary' movement, she might forgo her campaign promise to serve a term in New York 'for the sake of the people and her country' or something.
  • Sen. Gary Hart (CO): A surprise sleeper, but he wanted to run in '04 OTL and he's still known in some circles for his foreign policy credit. He's a good campaigner and can be strong in a weak field.
  • Gov. Tom Vilsack (IO): He looks like a turtle and he's a protege of a certain Iowa senator. Give him a shot.
Honestly, I'm just imagining a lot of "My country clearly needs me" sort of attitudes springing up.

Add Evan Bayh (D-IN) to the list: two-term governor and elected to the Senate in 1998. Bayh was on Obama's short list for VP in 2008.

I'd also throw out Harold Ford (D-TN, elected to the U.S House in 1998) as a possible VP pick.
 
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