WI: Nixon Elected in 1960

[Emperor Norton I]

1. No Bay of Pigs- Nixon would have been too savvy to 'sort of' give an indication that US planes would provide air cover.

I still disagree with this. Bay of Pigs was an Eisenhower administration plan, and one which Nixon was supportive of (as I've said, Kennedy tried to hoist Nixon by his own petard by playing Devil's advocate during the debates leading Nixon to play Devil's advocate and whoop him). It could have air cover, but that makes it all the more dangerous. It was supposed to be covert so the US wouldn't get caught and air cover was something that could have blown the cover. It was also supposed to rely on the exiles, who were to join with rebel forces in Cuba and rile up the population against Castro and take the country. I doubt even with air cover that the exiles could have done any better. All that would have happened is that Bay of Pigs would have been bloodier, in my opinion. Not prevented and not successful.

2. No humiliation by Khruschev at Vienna in the spring of 1961. Nixon had a better understanding of Khruschev's bullying rhetoric.

I suppose I agree.

3. No Berlin Wall.

I can see the reasoning to this, but the factors that lead to the wall seem in motion. Berlin was already divided, travel between east and west were becoming increasingly constricted, and the Eastern Germans were losing people and feared a "Brain Drain".

4. Cuban Missle Crisis- Maybe, but Nixon would have reacted much the same as JFK did.

Agreed that Nixon would be looking at the options Kennedy would in the way Kennedy would, roughly.

5. Viet Nam- I can't see Nixon falling in to the trap of committing US ground forces. Hard to tell, because the US never understood the conflict.

Nixon would have followed the path of advisers and aid and supply most likely. I don't think there's any reason that means Nixon never, ever, ever could have committed troops, but I don't see it as likely.

6. There would have been a Civil Rights Act and a Voting Rights Act, probably in Nixon's second term. Would have required some interesting Liberal Republican and Liberal Democrat alliances.

This isn't meant to be a complete list- just some thoughts.

Nixon could have sold it as anti-Communist legislation emboldening US strength in numbers, and if nothing else the Liberals of both parties could generate it in the Congress.

 

[Workable Goblin]

Nixon could have sold it as anti-Communist legislation emboldening US strength in numbers, and if nothing else the Liberals of both parties could generate it in the Congress.

Yeah--sometimes Congress will be the driver, not the President (maybe not all that often, but sometimes). Especially since presumably the actual civil rights movement will be going on pretty much as OTL, Nixon might be driven by those to supporting rights. I seem to recall that he was relatively legacy-conscious? And he might calculate that black support was worth losing people who weren't voting for him or the Republicans anyhow (which is one VERY IMPORTANT difference from the OTL situation--Nixon doesn't have the Solid South! He doesn't have to worry about losing Southern support! If anything, doing this will mean getting the whole black vote back into the Republicans! That's going to have HUGE repercussions on the US political scene, for sure).

 

[Historico]

With all this public spectacle, marking the 50th Anniversary of Jack's election to the Presidency, I was thinking, how would we view a Two-Term Nixon's Presidency 50 years after the fact? Other than passage of an alt version of CRA and VRA would Nixon be seen as a "transformational" President s Kennedy did, or would he be looked as a status quo president, who didn't rock the boat domestically that much? Ill have more on this later

 

[Historico]

With all this public spectacle, marking the 50th Anniversary of Jack's election to the Presidency, I was thinking, how would we view a Two-Term Nixon's Presidency 50 years after the fact? Other than passage of an alt version of CRA and VRA would Nixon be seen as a "transformational" President s Kennedy did, or would he be looked as a status quo president, who didn't rock the boat domestically that much? Ill have more on this later

Any Takers?

 

[Emperor Norton I]

I was gonna take it when I could think it over....and when I could give it a little time, be a whore, and bump the thread.

 

[Historico]

Heir Apparent: Nixon wins in 1960 TL, POTUS List

34. Dwight D. “Ike” Eisenhower (R-NY): January 20th 1953-January 20th 1961
35. Richard M. Nixon (R-CA): January 20th 1961-January 20th 1969
36. Henry M. “Scoop” Jackson (D-WA): January 20th 1969-January 20th 1977
37. Robert H. Finch (R-CA): January 20th 1977-January 20th 1981
38. Daniel “Pat” Moynihan (D-NY): January 20th 1981-January 20th 1989***
39. George H. Ryan (R-IL): January 20th 1989-August 14th 1994****
40. James L. Farmer Jr. (R-NY): August 14th 1994-January 20th 1997***
41. Ann Richards (D-TX): January 20th 1997-January 20th 2001***
42. John F. Kennedy Jr. (D-NY): January 20th 2001-November 22nd 2003**
43. David R. “Ron” Musgrove (D-MS): November 22nd 2003-January 20th 2009
44. Lincoln D. Chafee (R-RI): January 20th 2009-???

Notes

38. First Irish American Roman Catholic President
39. First to Resign the Presidency amidst impeachment proceedings due to corruption charges, later convicted
40. First African American President and Oldest President upon swearing in, 74
41. First Female President, declined to run for re-election due to health issues
42. Youngest President upon Inauguration (40), later assassinated via sniper rifle by international extremist terrorist network

Heir Apparent: Nixon wins in 1960, VEEP List

36. Richard M. Nixon (R-CA): January 20th 1953-January 20th 1961
37. Henry C. Lodge Jr. (R-MA): January 20th 1961-January 20th 1965
38. William G. Stratton (R-IL): January 20th 1965-January 20th 1969
39. George C. Wallace (D-AL): January 20th 1969-January 20th 1977
40. Raymond Shafer (R-PA): January 20th 1977-January 20th 1981
41. Lloyd M. Bentsen (D-TX): January 20th 1981-January 20th 1989
42. James L. Farmer Jr. (R-NY): January 20th 1989-August 14th 1994**
Vacant: August 14th-October 30th 1994
43. Peter B. “Pete” Wilson (R-CA): October 30th 1994-January 20th 1997
44. John F. Kennedy Jr. (D-NY): January 20th 1997-January 20th 2001
45. Donald “Ron” Musgrove (D-MS): January 20th 2001-November 22nd 2003
Vacant: November 22nd 2003-Feburary 14th 2004
46. William “Bill” Richardson (D-NM): February 14th 2004-January 20th 2009**
47. Eric K. Shinseki (R-HI): January 20th 2009-???***

Notes

42. First African American Vice President
46. First Latino American Vice President (Mexican/Spaniard Descent)
47. First Asian American Vice President (Japanese Descent

Heir Apparent: Nixon wins in 1960, Defeated Tickets

1960: John F. Kennedy (D-MA)/ Lyndon B. Johnson (D-TX)
1964: G. “Soappy” Williams (D-MI)/ Terry Sanford (D-NC)
1968: Barry M. Goldwater (R-AZ)/ Winthrop Rockefeller (R-AK)
1972: Nelson A. Rockefeller (R-NY)/ George H.W. Bush (R-TX)
1976: George C. Wallace (D-AL)/ Robert Byrd (D-WV)
1980: Robert H. Finch (R-CA)/Raymond Shafer (R-PA)
1984: Raymond Shafer (R-PA)/ Hillary Rodham-Edgar (R-IL)
1988: Lloyd M. Bentsen (D-TX)/ John Glenn (D-OH)
1992: Evan Bayh (D-IN)/ Al Gore Jr. (D-TN)
1996: Pete Wilson (R-CA)/ Jock McKernan Jr. (R-ME)
2000: Jock McKernan Jr. (R-ME)/ Ron Paul (R-TX)
2004: Jim Leach (R-IA)/Charlie Bass (R-NH)
2008: Ronnie Musgrove (D-MS)/ Bill Richardson (D-NM)

 

[Emperor Norton I]

With all this public spectacle, marking the 50th Anniversary of Jack's election to the Presidency, I was thinking, how would we view a Two-Term Nixon's Presidency 50 years after the fact? Other than passage of an alt version of CRA and VRA would Nixon be seen as a "transformational" President s Kennedy did, or would he be looked as a status quo president, who didn't rock the boat domestically that much? Ill have more on this later

A lot of it will be colored by cultural changes and public perception of politics and the presidency between this alternate 1960 and alternate 2010.
That said, I think Nixon would be seen as a continuation of the Long Shadow of the 1950s (which was 1950 to the early 1960's arguably before culture shifted in the wake of the boomers becoming even stronger and going hippie and all that; it could be said the 60s really started after the Kennedy assassination) and not new and vibrant like Kennedy; establishment rather than fresh breath. That 'long shadow of the 1950s' perception may also create a view that he would have been awkward and out of place once the culture had moved out of the 'long shadow of the 50s' while the Presidency hadn't.
I think he'd be viewed as a good president, one who accomplished quite a bit, but not one greatly transformational or inspiring.

 

[Emperor Norton I]

I'll tackle the proposed presidents in Historico's list since no one's replied.

36. Henry M. “Scoop” Jackson (D-WA): January 20th 1969-January 20th 1977

I don't believe Scoop Jackson was well known on the national stage until 1972-on. Although certain butterflies could get him enough recognition for a 1968 run, I still prefer JFK. I think it's more interesting that way for earlier mentioned reasons.

37. Robert H. Finch (R-CA): January 20th 1977-January 20th 1981

I had thought of him as a possibility too.

38. Daniel “Pat” Moynihan (D-NY): January 20th 1981-January 20th 1989***

Depends on select NY senator PODs (Buckley succeeding RFK's successor, and Moynihan succeeding Buckley was how it happened in the OTL).

39. George H. Ryan (R-IL): January 20th 1989-August 14th 1994****

Oh, the corruption charges.

40. James L. Farmer Jr. (R-NY): August 14th 1994-January 20th 1997***

I'm a sucker for ATL black presidents, but the socialist thing will hurt him if that still occurs.

41. Ann Richards (D-TX): January 20th 1997-January 20th 2001***
42. John F. Kennedy Jr. (D-NY): January 20th 2001-November 22nd 2003**

Too cliche, no offense.

43. David R. “Ron” Musgrove (D-MS): November 22nd 2003-January 20th 2009

No comment.

44. Lincoln D. Chafee (R-RI): January 20th 2009-???

No comment.

 

[Historico]

A lot of it will be colored by cultural changes and public perception of politics and the presidency between this alternate 1960 and alternate 2010.
That said, I think Nixon would be seen as a continuation of the Long Shadow of the 1950s (which was 1950 to the early 1960's arguably before culture shifted in the wake of the boomers becoming even stronger and going hippie and all that; it could be said the 60s really started after the Kennedy assassination) and not new and vibrant like Kennedy; establishment rather than fresh breath. That 'long shadow of the 1950s' perception may also create a view that he would have been awkward and out of place once the culture had moved out of the 'long shadow of the 50s' while the Presidency hadn't.
I think he'd be viewed as a good president, one who accomplished quite a bit, but not one greatly transformational or inspiring.

I was basically thinking the same Idea, That Nixon would be leaving office in 1969 to an America, radically different from the one that he came into office with in 1961. Alot of things like the Counter Culture, and Black Radicalism had been sown during the Eisenhower years, and I think most Boomers would have reacted against Nixon without having an inspiring figure to kind of rally their spirits for a higher national cause(Or they can all just go out and get law degree's earlier than they did iotl lol)

I think Blacks will definatley look back at him fondly, and probably alteast lean strongly to the a much more moderate GOP ITTL's 2010. Depending if Nixon engages in outright corporatist economic policies (which I doubt, due to the Democratic Congress), his silent majority should still be with him for most of his presidency...But im not sure how things would look ITTL's 1968

 

[Emperor Norton I]

Thought of something.
A big Nixon selling point was "I know Mr. Khrushchev." However, when/if Khrushchev is ousted, that all goes out the window. If Brezhnev comes in in 1964, Nixon will have no more experience with him than anyone else (at least I don't think Nixon had any contact with Brezhnev previously; I may be wrong).

 

[lounge60]

I was basically thinking the same Idea, That Nixon would be leaving office in 1969 to an America, radically different from the one that he came into office with in 1961.

Well, depends to Vietnam.
If no war,nothing rising of the counterculture (or same size of "beatnik" phenomenon),no protests at universities.

With Nixon we would not have the hopes then disappointed,
nothing "Great society" and maybe not civil right bill untill late 60s in second term of his Presidence.
So for paradox minor probability of racial riots.
But taxes were probably more low,and without Vietnam and Great Society costs,the 60s were a golden age for middle class.
So i think that in 1969 the United States resembled as USA in 1961,less or more.

Richard Nixon at White House in 1963.