WI: Nixon administration (competently) pays burglars, Watergate never fully revealed?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by GeographyDude, Sep 13, 2019 at 1:54 PM.

  1. GeographyDude Well-Known Member

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    And from other sources, I've learned the plan was to financially support the families while the burglars honorably took the fall for the president and served their time. Which actually, sounds pretty reasonable to me, I'm sorry, but it does.


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    So, if Watergate is never fully revealed . . .

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    Later edit:

    https://www.npr.org/2012/06/16/154997482/follow-the-money-on-the-trail-of-watergate-lore
    “ . . . The cash that needed following was more than $200,000 paid to Watergate plotters G. Gordon Liddy and Howard Hunt, and the five burglars. . . ”

    As far as taking care of seven families while the guys serve prison terms, only a start.

    The money was too little, too late, and too disorganized.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019 at 3:29 PM
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  2. GeographyDude Well-Known Member

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    Option 1: Things Stay Largely the Same!

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    Nixon limps along to the end of his presidency. Yes, there's rumors and investigative reporting, but it never seems to approach a threshold where it appears impeachment is likely.

    Carter in 1976, Iran and stagflation in '79 and '80, and Reagan wins Nov. 1980.
     
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  3. GeographyDude Well-Known Member

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    Option 2: Things are Significantly Different in that . . .

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    (and I welcome your ideas! :)
     
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  4. trajen777 Member

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    Bazically Nixon would have :

    1. Gone down as a great president (foreign policy / national health care / China opening)
    2. Have driven the national health care plan that he was getting ready to launch
    3. Have supported the South Vietnam (if the north ever moved forward with invasion in the first place ) with massive funding (and air support)
    4. Have left the Republicans in good shape for the next presidency
     
  5. H.Flashman(VC) Well-Known Member

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    Eh, didn't he pay, but wasn't this moneytrail discovered and investigated?
     
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  6. GeographyDude Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure Nixoncare would actually be all that good as policy. I mean, look at all the public uproar over Obamacare, and yes, public support is a big part of successful policy.

    The rumors that Nixon worked to scuttle LBJ's last minute peace deal between North and South Vietnam may gain increase circulation and traction. The one saving grace is that South Vietnam President Thieu wasn't crazy about the deal in the first place.
     
  7. GeographyDude Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they paid some money, but too little, too late.

    It's like the Nixon administration was too disorganization to get their shit together.
     
  8. interpoltomo please don't do coke in the bathroom

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    All Nixon needed to was do to an insincere apology once it comes out, pardon the burgulars and have the story be a two-week sensation, instead of letting it escalate.
     
  9. History Learner Well-Known Member

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    What makes you think that would work out?
     
  10. History Learner Well-Known Member

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    Nixon keeps support going to South Vietnam, which will have stabilized sufficiently by the time he leaves office. He also gets UHC implemented in the remainder of his term. 1976 sees Scoop Jackson vs Connally.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019 at 3:45 PM
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  11. interpoltomo please don't do coke in the bathroom

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    it defuses the situation before the burgulars get questioned by any prosecutors so dems don't scent blood and go deeper
     
  12. GeographyDude Well-Known Member

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    Yes, early and quick pardons prevents a widening scandal as far as new details coming out on a semi-regular basis. In a sense, it’s like pulling off a bandaid all at once.

    But Nixon does limp along as a weakened president.
     
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  13. GeographyDude Well-Known Member

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    When the rubber really hits the road, how well do you think Nixoncare, as we might call it, will really work as far as policy main points and public support?
     
  14. History Learner Well-Known Member

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    Completely different political and media environment than what Obamacare faced; Liberal isn’t a dirty word yet and plenty are still around that favor big government programs.
     
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  15. GeographyDude Well-Known Member

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    South Vietnam is the reputation issue.

    But the really big humanitarian issue is Cambodia.
     
  16. GeographyDude Well-Known Member

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    Justice and Starvation in Cambodia: The Khmer Rouge Famine
    The Cambodia Law and Policy Journal, Randle DeFalco, Dec. 2014.

    http://cambodialpj.org/article/justice-and-starvation-in-cambodia-the-khmer-rouge-famine/

    The Khmer Rouge certainly did directly shoot people, but the really big numbers came from starvation by exporting rice to China under the doctrine and fiction that they were succeeding in tripling production. Especially in the northwest of the country where the unpopular city people had been massively resettled.

    We bear some responsibility for destabilizing the country; China bears a shit ton of responsibility for buying the rice exports under these conditions.

    The Khmer Rouge succeeded in taking the capital city of Phnom Penh on April 17, 1975
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019 at 4:18 PM
  17. interpoltomo please don't do coke in the bathroom

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    My guess is nixoncare would resemble in many ways the swiss/dutch healthcare programs with their focus on using insurers. At any rate we'd spend 40% less than OTL on healthcare, plus have a less topheavy/monopolistic business environment without OTL's system that de facto only allows SMALL companies or megacorporations to exist, so more medium-sized companies.

    Effects on public support/policy? Well, you'd have the small government types drastically weakened in the GOP, plus a faster shift of working class whites to the GOP with effects on policy. A GOP that's got a bigger working class component, combined with a populist wing. The middle class yuppie social cons/movement cons would at most be a wing of the party with a not clean, but at least not caught Nixon being able to seal the deal with making a populist wing/moving the south GOP early, combined with no destruction of the moderate wing post-watergate, so a significantly less socially conservative/prudish GOP than OTL.
     
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  18. Carl Schwamberger Well-Known Member

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    As someone of voting age in that era & a liberal Republican I can say it would. Not one really wanted the problems of a scandal. I'll also emphasis it was not the burglary that was the problem, it was the rather stupid & bungled cover up. The effort spent to conceal a seemingly minor bit of political chicanery seemed ridiculous. In those days we assumed such spying was normal. The inept cover up is what shook folks confidence in Nixion & his staff. They had a government to run & were wasting inordinate amounts of effort on a dumb but minor thing. As things snowballed Nixon and his staff were ceasing to function as a executive & head administrator, & certainly was no longer a leader. If he had taken the necessary degree of responsibility at the start he would have appeared as the leader folks hoped he was and things would have moved on.
     
  19. Oldbill Well-Known Member

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    Gotta agree with Carl on this.
     
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  20. Johnrankins Well-Known Member

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    Obama made at least 4 crucial mistakes, one of which I doubt Nixon would have and it was the most important one.

    1)The most important one is that it was passed on an entirely partisan basis. The Democrats didn't seriously try to get Republican votes until it was far too late.

    They should have had them in the room when the law was being made. Without Republican support, no mistakes would ever be fixed. The Republican had ZERO skin in the game so they had no reason to want it fixed. Any success would be given to the Democratic Party as well as any failure. There was no reason for them to want to succeed and every reason to want it to fail.

    2) They set the penalty way too low. A young healthy person had zero incentive to buy Obamacare. They were grossly overcharged and the penalty was far lower than the premium. About the only young people who bought Obamacare are those who are heavily subsidized. The ones who have to pay full freight mostly avoided it like the plague and paid the penalty. Young people are exactly the ones you want in. They pay in and don't take out.

    3) It allowed those under 26 to opt-out and be covered by their parents' insurance. Again these are the ones you want paying in. A lot of 18-26-year-olds, the ones you want in the most, got covered by their parents' insurance.

    4) Because of this Obamacare tends to be HMOs with extremely narrow networks. Most people consider Obamacare to be "garbage insurance" as a result. This tends to make people want to avoid it because they don't get much more than being a charity case in the hospital.

    2-4 will never be fixed because of 1. With no incentive to fix the problems and every incentive not to the Republicans will not vote for anything to fix it.