WI: Nixon a card-carrying communist?

Aelita

Aelita

One thing that is quite interesting for anyone who reads Nixon's bio is that his working class background and relative class-consciousness don't seem to fit him in very well with the rest of his party. Change a few things, and he quite very well could have been radicalized in his youth or during college.

So what if he had? So what happens if Nixon joins some radical left movement. Obviously he's not going to become president or anything else like that. So what else would change.
 
RogueBeaver

RogueBeaver

What? Ford was working-class, as was Reagan. Hoover grew up poor, though he later became a multimillionaire. None of them had class consciousness as far as I can tell though.

Nixon, if he became radicalized, might go underground or even to the Soviet Union to check it out, and though hardly naive and painfully idealistic like many of the brainwashed intellectuals who went in the '20s and '30s IOTL, would probably like it. He probably starts a radical newsletter about how FDR is not radical enough, but perhaps urges socialists to vote for FDR since Thomas cannot win. By the '50s he mellows into a Chomsky or Zinn analogue with a university professorship somewhere in the Midwest or Northeast. He's on the FBI watch list obviously. Perhaps he gets hauled before HUAC or its ATL analogue. Hell, Joe McCarthy, RFK and Cohn might get Nixon tossed in jail for "subversive activities" thus furthering their own careers with a Hiss-like PR coup.
 
Aelita

Aelita

RogueBeaver said:
What? Ford was working-class, as was Reagan. Hoover grew up poor, though he later became a multimillionaire. None of them had class consciousness as far as I can tell though.

Nixon, if he became radicalized, might go underground or even to the Soviet Union to check it out, and though hardly naive and painfully idealistic like many of the brainwashed intellectuals who went in the '20s and '30s IOTL, would probably like it. He probably starts a radical newsletter about how FDR is not radical enough, but perhaps urges socialists to vote for FDR since Thomas cannot win. By the '50s he mellows into a Chomsky or Zinn analogue with a university professorship somewhere in the Midwest or Northeast. He's on the FBI watch list obviously. Perhaps he gets hauled before HUAC or its ATL analogue. Hell, Joe McCarthy, RFK and Cohn might get Nixon tossed in jail for "subversive activities" thus furthering their own careers with a Hiss-like PR coup.
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That's the key difference. Nixon became a Republican because he associated liberalism with affluent elitism; a perverse form of class-consciousness but class consciousness nonetheless.

It would be quite interesting to see Nixon hauled before HUAC to defend himself for his "subversive" activities.

And how does the rest of politics develop without Nixon as a major player? Starting off with who is Eisenhower going to have for his VP?
 
RogueBeaver

RogueBeaver

Eisenhower would pick Knowland, who's dumb as nails and a China Lobby tool. Ike disliked Knowland since he (rightfully) considered him unintelligent and obsessed with Jiang's ChiNats on Taiwan. If Knowland is nominated in '60, JFK in a walk, even many Republicans would vote for him not just because it's almost Palin v. Obama but the domestic ideological differences between JFK and Nixon (to say nothing of the proto-DLC Bobby) IOTL were practically non-existent, both being firm centrists. It's a matter of public funding/private funding for shared liberal goals. Without Nixon the GOP would nominate Goldwater in '64, and in '68 the closest Nixon analogue would be George Romney. He'd lose badly to Humphrey, and Bobby (if things go similar to OTL, but he lives and is nominated) would kick his ass in the general. There were quite a few 1967 polls that showed RFK beating Romney 55-39. So that's up to '68, after that depends on the butterflies. Also- there is a decent possibility that RFK becomes a Republican. In the early-to-mid '50s it is really only family loyalty that would prevent it, not ideology. Without the Hoffa business, somewhat more likely.

Now, Nixon continues being the Zinn/Chomsky analogue until he dies sometime in the '90s. Actually, I think Nixon would wind up as the ATL Zinn myself, perhaps even writing a similar book to APHUS.
 
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RogueBeaver

RogueBeaver

That's easy. Zinn doesn't go back to Royan to do his post-doctoral research. Therefore he doesn't find out about the mistaken bombing of the town and doesn't reach the conclusion it is a war crime. Or he chooses another thesis topic. So he still has a positive view of WWII. He comes to the conclusion in the late '40s that the Dems are too soft on communism and becomes a Republican. In '54 he runs in a safe GOP NY House seat, NY-26. Later he writes occasionally for either Kristol's Weekly Standard or Buckley's National Review. In '58 he runs for state AG and wins. In '62 he primaries Javits and wins. In '68 he flirts with running against his fellow NY Republican Senator, Robert Kennedy but decides to support him against Barry Goldwater and George Romney. Kennedy wins in '68, and Zinn becomes VP. In '76 he succeeds Kennedy with Robert Finch as his VP, but loses due to the recession to Gary Hart in 1980.
 

spsook

RogueBeaver said:
That's easy. Zinn doesn't go back to Royan to do his post-doctoral research. Therefore he doesn't find out about the mistaken bombing of the town and doesn't reach the conclusion it is a war crime. Or he chooses another thesis topic. So he still has a positive view of WWII. He comes to the conclusion in the late '40s that the Dems are too soft on communism and becomes a Republican. In '54 he runs in a safe GOP NY House seat, NY-26. Later he writes occasionally for either Kristol's Weekly Standard or Buckley's National Review. In '58 he runs for state AG and wins. In '62 he primaries Javits and wins. In '68 he flirts with running against his fellow NY Republican Senator, Robert Kennedy but decides to support him against Barry Goldwater and George Romney. Kennedy wins in '68, and Zinn becomes VP. In '76 he succeeds Kennedy with Robert Finch as his VP, but loses due to the recession to Gary Hart in 1980.
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Not so sure about Zinn becoming a Republican; his initial exposure to left thought was pre-WWII as a kid in NY with Red friends (he discusses it in "The Zinn Reader.") The POD would have to be further back. Furthermore, he could maintain a negative position about the war w/o Royan - Hiroshima and Nagasaki might horrify him (he did a fellowship in East Asian studies at Harvard) and he already had Communist friends in the '30s. I don't really see him taking the neocon path a la Kristol. If he does, I don't really see him running for office. A pro-labor, mildly dovish position might be better; a softer Scoop Jackson, perhaps.
Might be easier to make Zinn a Democrat who breaks with Wallace in '48, joins ADA or an analogue in the '50s and maintains a less anti-establishment (but still social-democratic, war-suspicious) political mentality and running for Senate, and then advancing to the presidency from there.

Furthermore, the idea of having both of NY's Senators on the same presidential ticket would be next to impossible - both Democrats and Republicans sought regional balance on their tickets (always pair a Northerner with a Southerner or Westerner: Nixon/Lodge, Kennedy/Johnson.) Zinn as a VP for someone like Romney (if a Republican) maybe - though it'd be interesting to see him run with someone like Johnson or even Pat Brown or (if very late in the '70s) a fellow veteran like Dan Inouye from Hawai'i.
 

Constantinople

Banned
People have to remember that Nixon was really pretty poor. He had a horrible home and was sick all the time. He hated the rich east coast liberal 'elite' more than rich hollywood types.
 
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