WI: Nintendo stopped being actively hostile to third parties in the N64 era?

[ElusiveIllusion]

As we know, Nintendo used to be very unfriendly towards third party developers, but got away with it in the NES and SNES eras. The point when this really hurt Nintendo was N64 still using cartridges when everyone else was using CDs, causing almost all the third party developers to flock to the PlayStation. Yet instead of learning from this mistake and making corrections, they continued to make even more baffling decisions with whatever few second and third parties they had left:

• N64 being made deliberately hard to code for to weed out untalented developers (Hiroshi Yamauchi: The Iron Fist in the Velvet Glove) was a mistake in itself, but they apparently kept that stance instead of then providing detailed developer manuals to alleviate the issue.
• They pissed off Argonaut Games (their co-developer for Star Fox) by not releasing a completed Star Fox 2 AND rejecting the Yoshi Racing prototype completely (rather than, say, offering to co-develop it and spin it off in a different direction from Super Mario 64) (Born slippy: the making of Star Fox).
• They pissed off DMA Design (they were even part of Nintendo's "Dream Team"!) by first meddling a lot in Body Harvest's design with confusing demands like "more materialistic", then dumping the publisher deal completely (Body Harvest Wikipedia Article).
• They treated Sucker Punch's first project, Rocket: Robot on Wheels, in a... very confusing way. They outright came to Nintendo as first choice of publisher, but instead of accepting the request or at least directly rejecting their pitch, Nintendo first told them to create a prototype without a N64 development kit, then dumped a dev kit on them without helping to publish it; yet the fact that they got a N64 dev kit put them in a position where Sony would refuse to publish it either. This experience probably frustrated them so much they wanted nothing to do with Nintendo from that point on (Something Electric in Bellevue: The History of Sucker Punch).
• When the GameCube was made, Nintendo STILL used inferior storage medium, preventing third parties from being able to put their games in one disc.
• As we know, they refused to acquire Rare, letting them fall into Microsoft's hands.
• There are probably a lot more issues I missed. In short, Nintendo was continuing to burn bridges with third parties and not taking the opportunity to build new ones, even when they could not afford to.

I would have thought that any console maker starved for third party content would want to hold onto and grab whatever they can...

So what if Nintendo changed their attitude towards third parties the moment they noticed how much traction PlayStation had gained (let's say 1995)? And corrected all of the above issues, possibly more? Would Nintendo have fared better in the GameCube era, possibly even in the N64 era?

• Developer manuals to help with the complex architecture.
• Star Fox 2 is released, the Yoshi prototype is accepted but made into a spinoff distinct from Super Mario 64.
  • Argonaut Games would probably remain a Nintendo second party, but not sure what other games they would help to make.
• If for some reason Nintendo is really conscious about keeping the Nintendo name family-friendly, they could use a label for mature games akin to Disney's Touchstone Pictures.
• Nintendo only 'publishes' Body Harvest in promoting it, letting violent themes stay (after all, I thought they already knew the importance of letting games remain uncensored ever since Mortal Kombat).
  • DMA Design/Rockstar North would at the very least produce ports of the GTA games on Nintendo consoles, especially the GameCube. This would bolster the list of mature titles on Nintendo's consoles, albeit not necessarily Nintendo-published.
• Nintendo helps publish Sucker Punch's Rocket: Robot on Wheels.
  • This one is more iffy, but Sucker Punch might have become a Nintendo second party instead. Wait, was the Sly Cooper series Sucker Punch's idea or Sony's idea?
  • Later on, was the Infamous series Sucker Punch's idea or Sony's idea? If the former and Sucker Punch joined Nintendo, it could have bolstered the lineup of Nintendo-published mature games on Nintendo consoles.
• Nintendo uses standard DVDs for the GameCube.
  • Developers who avoided GameCube due to storage reasons would probably have joined in. But not those who avoided it due to poor sales. How many third party PS2/XBOX games were simply too large for the GameCube minidiscs?
• Nintendo acquires Rare.
  • Nintendo keeps the Banjo Kazooie Series.
  • Donkey Kong Racing on the GameCube does not become vaporware.
  • More importantly, Nintendo gains access to the Killer Instinct and Perfect Dark series to bolster the lineup of Nintendo-published mature games on Nintendo consoles.

Would this change in attitude towards third parties, these accompanying changes in actions, and other changes like making the GameCube less kiddy-looking and its controller less strange, have helped Nintendo not lose the console wars by such a large extent in the N64 and GameCube eras? If yes and they managed to beat XBOX (there was absolutely no way they were going to beat PS2), would they have continued pursuing the direction of powerful consoles?

P.S. I know there are some timelines in this forum that correct the problems with N64 by turning it into a CD-based console, but I am asking what happens if the N64 specs, including the use of cartridges, were already set in stone, but Nintendo corrects its attitude towards third parties and aesthetics and technical aspects of subsequent consoles (I mean seriously, Nintendo was just criticized for being kiddy and having an inferior storage medium in the N64 era, and they make... an even more kiddy-looking follow-up with another inferior storage medium...).

P.P.S. I started reading about the history of video games because I don't have the time to actually play console games anymore. The first video game alternate history thread I encountered was Player Two Start, and have been interested in speculating video game history since. I don't think I have the time to create a timeline of my own though.

 

[ElusiveIllusion]

Actually... for such things to happen, Nintendo's leadership would have to behave pretty out-of-character. So we may need to add or remove 'acts of god' for this to happen.

• Hiroshi Yamauchi would need to suffer from a health complication or be the victim of an accident in 1995, after N64 specs are finalised. With Satoru Iwata still being President of HAL, the next candidate for the next President of Nintendo might be his son-in-law, Minoru Arakawa, who was also President of Nintendo of America. Being more familiar with American gaming tastes, he may have been willing to implement these changes. But I am not sure if Minoru Arakawa's personality would lead Nintendo down this path. A Death in the Family has a similar premise, but happens before development of the N64 started.
• What impact would the sudden change in creative direction have though on Nintendo's game designers? I am not sure if this would prompt, say, Shigeru Miyamoto, to resign in protest, believing that Nintendo is straying too far from its roots of providing simple fun as opposed to cinematic experiences and murder simulators.
• On a less related note, if Nintendo fell into the 'powerful console' path (with Satoru Iwata not at the helm), would it have applied to its portable line? If yes, and if Gunpei Yokoi's accident did not happen (at that point he was no longer affiliated with Nintendo, but with Bandai), would Bandai's Wonderswan series have been able to successfully threaten or even dethrone Nintendo's handheld dominance?

 

[dmg86]

The thing is that in the US the N64 didn't do to badly. I think you need someone willing to challenge the leadership at Nintendo of Japan as they made all the major decisions. As to the handheld market by 1995 the Gameboy held too big of a sales advantage and was cheap to buy. It launched at $90 in the US.

 

[ElusiveIllusion]

I think you need someone willing to challenge the leadership at Nintendo of Japan as they made all the major decisions.

That was indeed what I guessed, but do you have any idea who (whether in Nintendo already or brought in from outside Nintendo) could do that?

As to the handheld market by 1995 the Gameboy held too big of a sales advantage and was cheap to buy. It launched at $90 in the US.

Fair enough for that generation. I was talking more about its successors. where Gunpei Yokoi somehow manages to help Bandai make a handheld successor to the Wonderswan that is more appealing than Gameboy Advance. Or worse, after the Gameboy Advance, Nintendo falls into the same 'console-quality handheld' trap that first Sega & Atari, then Sony fell into, while Gunpei Yokoi & Bandai make a 'Doubleswan' that is more like OTL's NDS.

 

[dmg86]

I doubt it the Wonderswan would get a successor as it only sold 3.50 million units and was only released in Japan. I doubt that any company short of Sony or Microsoft could even try to complete with Nintendo at the time in the handheld market.

 

[TheFaultsofAlts]

This timeline has some promise overall, but I have some things to say about it...

1: I love the prospect of Nintendo having a separate company for more mature titles. Might I suggest calling the new studio Gerudo Interactive? Why would I call it that? For a few reasons:
-The Gerudo race in Legend of Zelda is home to Ganondorf, one of the most evil Nintendo villains ever.
-Because of that, you could argue that it's the opposite of Nintendo's name, which means "Leave luck to Heaven."
-Calling it ________________ Interactive may bring on a less childish appearance to the average consumer, thus not alienating the older purchasers of gaming as a whole.

2: I'm not sure if Squaresoft would still work with Nintendo, even if the N64 plays discs, if the Gamecube uses DVD software, or if they launch more adult games. So, the least they could do is sell the Super Mario RPG content to the Big N, so as to prevent any legal issues that hold the likes of Geno and Mallow back from re-entering the public eye.
2.5: Why do I mention this? Because combining that aspect with the Yoshi racing spinoff and the existence of Croc, Boshi just might become a household name among Yoshi fans. Sure, owning an evil counterpart to Yoshi might mean that Waluigi doesn't exist in this timeline, instead opting to put Boshi in the sports games and Mario Kart sequels, but you can't please them all, I suppose.
2.75: Speaking of the Yoshi spinoff, maybe one of the raceable animals in Donkey Kong Racing just so happens to be of the Yoshi species, since Banjo and Conker debuted in Diddy Kong Racing and became household names of their own.

3: Perhaps Nintendo purchases WayForward Technologies in 2010, thus placing Shantae in the same ranks as Mario, Link, Kirby, and Pikachu. This would also make her a Sm4sh newcomer by default.

4: Maybe the Wii, or call it the Revolution if you'd like, has its earlier titles not make motion controls mandatory, thus not making hardcore gamers prefer the competition.

5: Of course, some third-party developers would still defect to the likes of Sony and Microsoft. Of them, my bet would go to Konami being in bed with Clippy first, with or without Hudson Soft, and Sony entering a deal with Sega, of all companies, as a way to tell Mario and Luigi that "PlayStation Does What NintenDoesn't". On a sidenote, that would work wonders as a backup slogan for the PS2.

Just a few randomly pulled ideas of my own after discovering this WI.

 

[ElusiveIllusion]

1: I love the prospect of Nintendo having a separate company for more mature titles. Might I suggest calling the new studio Gerudo Interactive? Why would I call it that? For a few reasons:
-The Gerudo race in Legend of Zelda is home to Ganondorf, one of the most evil Nintendo villains ever.
-Because of that, you could argue that it's the opposite of Nintendo's name, which means "Leave luck to Heaven."
-Calling it ________________ Interactive may bring on a less childish appearance to the average consumer, thus not alienating the older purchasers of gaming as a whole.

I love that name! But slight problem: Ocarina of Time was only released in 21 November 1998, but Body Harvest was supposed to be released on launch day, so that label is out of the question for that game. I can’t think of an alternative right now...

2: I'm not sure if Squaresoft would still work with Nintendo, even if the N64 plays discs, if the Gamecube uses DVD software, or if they launch more adult games. So, the least they could do is sell the Super Mario RPG content to the Big N, so as to prevent any legal issues that hold the likes of Geno and Mallow back from re-entering the public eye.

Yeah, they probably won’t on home consoles. At least until the PS3 gets its rocky start.

3: Perhaps Nintendo purchases WayForward Technologies in 2010, thus placing Shantae in the same ranks as Mario, Link, Kirby, and Pikachu. This would also make her a Sm4sh newcomer by default.

...I know theoretically anything could happen in an alternate history, but does this have precedent IOTL?

4: Maybe the Wii, or call it the Revolution if you'd like, has its earlier titles not make motion controls mandatory, thus not making hardcore gamers prefer the competition.

Agreed on the name. My idea though was for ITTL GameCube (will definitely be called something else) to beat Xbox, and think that going for powerful consoles would still be worth it. Only deciding to go ‘Blue Ocean’ later once Nintendo’s ‘Gameboy Hyper’ (basically a weaker PSP that uses cartridges and has a better battery life) loses to Bandai’s ‘Wondertouch’ (basically a Gameboy Advance with touchscreen functionality) (even though Nintendo’s handheld still beats the actual PSP).

5: Of course, some third-party developers would still defect to the likes of Sony and Microsoft. Of them, my bet would go to Konami being in bed with Clippy first, with or without Hudson Soft, and Sony entering a deal with Sega, of all companies, as a way to tell Mario and Luigi that "PlayStation Does What NintenDoesn't". On a sidenote, that would work wonders as a backup slogan for the PS2.

Of course. But I was still leaning towards the usual ‘Microsoft buys Sega’ angle.

On a side note, somehow the more I think about it, the more intriguing a Nintendo-affiliated Sucker Punch seems, at least in the GameCube era:

1. Rocket: Robot on Wheels can be included in a N64 platformer collection alongside Super Mario 64, Banjo Kazooie and whatever Argonaut’s finished prototype is.
2. Perhaps ‘GameCube’ has a launch lineup consisting entirely of mature and grimdark games trying to capitalise on the ‘mature’ crowd, but causing slow launch sales due to alienating their usual family-friendly crowd. Then the next year Nintendo-published games ping-pong between their usual ‘childish’ games and these ‘grimdark’ games with absolutely nothing in between (Nintendo is panicking and has difficulty figuring out what sort of ‘mature’ gamers want while appeasing the family-friendly crowd). Then in comes a Nintendo-published Sucker Punch’s Sly Cooper which is family-friendly yet has a mature streak, serving as a breath of fresh air for ‘GameCube’ owners who don’t like overly ‘kiddy’ games yet are sick of grimdark, photorealistic, melodramatic games. This causes it to sell better than IOTL, where it got somewhat overshadowed and outsold by Jak & Daxter and Ratchet & Clank that cover a similar niche on PlayStation 2. This also causes Sucker Punch to have a RIVALRY against Naughty Dog and Insomniac Games rather than a friendship.
3. Not all positive: On ‘Nintendo Revolution’, Sucker Punch feels comfortable or compelled to retain the original ‘Animal Crossing with Superheroes’ concept of Infamous, which then performs poorly due to being on the same platform as the ACTUAL Animal Crossing.

Note: No offence to Nintendo when I say ‘childish’, I am referring to ITTL’s people’s perception of Nintendo’s family-friendly fare.

 

[TheFaultsofAlts]

I love that name! But slight problem: Ocarina or Time was only released in 21 November 1998, but Body Harvest was supposed to be released on launch day, so that label is out of the question for that game. I can’t think of an alternative right now...

Yeah, they probably won’t on home consoles. At least until the PS3 gets its rocky start.

...I know theoretically anything could happen in an alternate history, but does this have precedent IOTL?

Agreed on the name. My idea though was for ITTL GameCube (will definitely be called something else) to beat Xbox, and think that going for powerful consoles would still be worth it. Only deciding to go ‘Blue Ocean’ later once Nintendo’s ‘Gameboy Hyper’ (basically a weaker PSP that uses cartridges and has a better battery life) loses to Bandai’s ‘Wondertouch’ (basically a Gameboy Advance with touchscreen functionality) (even though Nintendo’s handheld still beats the actual PSP).

Of course. But I was still leaning towards the usual ‘Microsoft buys Sega’ angle.

On a side note, somehow the more I think about it, the more intriguing a Nintendo-affiliated Sucker Punch seems, at least in the GameCube era:

1. Rocket: Robot on Wheels can be included in a N64 platformer collection alongside Super Mario 64, Banjo Kazooie and whatever Argonaut’s finished prototype is.
2. Perhaps ‘GameCube’ has a launch lineup consisting entirely of mature and grimdark games trying to capitalise on the ‘mature’ crowd, but causing slow launch sales due to alienating their usual family-friendly crowd. Then the next year Nintendo-published games ping-pong between their usual ‘childish’ games and these ‘grimdark’ games with absolutely nothing in between (Nintendo is panicking and has difficulty figuring out what sort of ‘mature’ gamers want while appeasing the family-friendly crowd). Then in comes a Nintendo-published Sucker Punch’s Sly Cooper which is family-friendly yet has a mature streak, serving as a breath of fresh air for ‘GameCube’ owners who don’t like overly ‘kiddy’ games yet are sick of grimdark, photorealistic, melodramatic games. This causes it to sell better than IOTL, where it got somewhat overshadowed and outsold by Jak & Daxter and Ratchet & Clank that cover a similar niche on PlayStation 2. This also causes Sucker Punch to have a RIVALRY against Naughty Dog and Insomniac Games rather than a friendship.
3. Not all positive: On ‘Nintendo Revolution’, Sucker Punch feels comfortable or compelled to retain the original ‘Animal Crossing with Superheroes’ concept of Infamous, which then performs poorly due to being on the same platform as the ACTUAL Animal Crossing.

Well, how about we call it Hanafuda Studios instead? That way, only adults, or very prodigal kids for that matter, could make the connection between Hanafuda and Nintendo, and thus, would be less likely to purchase a game from that branch for their children. Of course, if OOT becomes the success it did in our timeline, then it can be renamed to Gerudo Interactive in 1999 at the earliest point.

Good thing Nintendo still retains a monopoly in handheld consoles!

Well, since you asked, back before 2010, just about 90% of WayForward's games could be found only on Nintendo's portable hardwares. One of those games just so happens to be their unofficial mascot, Shantae. Sure, it was released on the Game Boy Color in 2002 over in our timeline, but it's the thought that counts.

Typical, yet practical. I like it.

I wouldn't put it on the same level as those powerhouses, seeing as though the Robot on Wheels is going up against Mario and Banjo in the same arena.
I'd rather have it mostly consist of dark and edgy titles, but with one or two family-friendly games to differentiate itself. Sure, the slow launch sales would still happen, but it wouldn't all be a bad launch window for the company at large.
I feel like Sly Cooper and Banjo-Kazooie would go hand-in-hand if Nintendo manages to be highly affiliated with both developers.
To me, Infamous would have to get really creative to not go through any legal issues from the likes of Marvel and DC by going with their initial pitch, and thus, feels like a prime choice for a sacrifice in case it doesn't go smoothly in the long run.

 

[Deleted member 150598]

2.5: Why do I mention this? Because combining that aspect with the Yoshi racing spinoff and the existence of Croc, Boshi just might become a household name among Yoshi fans. Sure, owning an evil counterpart to Yoshi might mean that Waluigi doesn't exist in this timeline, instead opting to put Boshi in the sports games and Mario Kart sequels, but you can't please them all, I suppose.

Will Croc become a Yoshi character (Yoshi’s sidekick, particularly)? If that’s the case, then I could be envisioning Yoshi and Croc vs. Boshi as the dinosaur counterpart of Mario and Luigi vs. Wario. It makes sense, but I don’t know if the sidekick (Luigi or Croc) having a doppelgänger of their own (Waluigi on Luigi’s behalf) is too much for the hero/sidekick/rival spectrum. As long as their character is interesting, they’re absolutely fine in my book, though it’s something Waluigi is lacking in: a properly fleshed out character.