Maybe Marco Polo brings a copy of Sun Tzu's The Art of War, gets it translated somehow and brings it to the west. If somehow Nicollo Machiavelli reads it, would this alter his political views in any way?
WI: Nicollo Machiavelli reads The Art of War
- Thread starter Mister Abbadon
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I guess he'd say "Interesting book. But what do you do when your opponent is not a bumbling idiot or is even as smart as you?"
The first known European translation was made in 1782 by the French. If there was a translation that Machiavelli read, he makes no mention of it in any of his known works. There's no reason to conclude that he would (or even could) have read it. We know what all his main sources are, as he's very keen on referring to them - the classical histories of Rome and Greece.
Given that the "Art of War" focuses primarily on tactical and strategic "rules of thumb" in warfare, I don't think it really falls into the realm of Machiavelli's interest. If he read it (or had read it) he probably would have counted it as just an extraordinary study on Chinese military stratagem. I'd think he would have praised the book's features that he identified with the most and probably would have praised the traits of the book that described virtue and honor while in combat, but I don't see any ability for the book to influence him beyond that.
It might alter his views of military strategy but Machiavelli had his own very strong political views, even if he kept them well concealed. In fact, he might not want to let his enemies in on good military information. By he way, the Chinese themselves read that work extensively yet time and again their leaders did not heed its advice and displayed incredible ineptitude.
frlmerrin
Banned
Yep. That is pretty much the situation as I understand it. However as I said previously the Italian cities were near the end of the silk roads and lots of Chinese and Indian works did reach Europe along them. Many of those works have been lost to history. In addition to this Sun Wu's Art of War was a very common and well known book in China all the way into Tibet and what is now ex-Soviet Central Asia. Thus it is not impossible that Machiavelli could have read it.
Just to be clear I am making no claim other than that it might have been possible that Machiavelli read Sun Wu's Art of War.
Just to be clear I am making no claim other than that it might have been possible that Machiavelli read Sun Wu's Art of War.
Perhaps so. Although he only lived a relatively short life (58 years, apparently) I read somewhere that he owned and read a staggering amount of books in his lifetime? I think I also read somewhere (although I cannot confirm) that Machiavelli had a near inhuman ability to read, memorize and occasionally recite knowledge, bordering near savant levels. To keep it simple, from what I understand, the man was addicted to reading literature.
He wrote his own book on the topic, called Art of War.
He might have cited it a bit, in his book, or borrowed anecdotes that underlines his points, but there's a lot of technical stuff he'd just have ignored.
He might have cited it a bit, in his book, or borrowed anecdotes that underlines his points, but there's a lot of technical stuff he'd just have ignored.
I don't think it would radically alter Machiavelli's political views however, Machiavelli like Sun Tzu believed that military matters were of the utmost importance to the state. Coincidentally enough Machiavelli did write a book called The Art of War, but to my knowledge I don't think Sun Tzu influenced him. Although lets say for the sake of argument he does read it, we could see Machiavelli and maybe later military writers try their hands at writing commentary on it like several Chinese scholars and leaders did.
Certainly if he wrote a review based on the book he would probably have some praise for aspects of The Art of War that matches to his own views. Though the issue is still that in the end Machiavelli only became seriously famous or influential after his death. The Prince and The Discourses were published Several years after his death.
I would love to see his republican supporting Discourses becoming the superior read of his works, but alas the Prince which favored to the market is better known.
Though his vision in his Art of War did bare fruit when he created and commanded Republican Florentine City-Milita. And granted if Wiki is to be believed influenced Gustavus Adolphus, Maurice of Nassau, and Frederick the Great.
I would love to see his republican supporting Discourses becoming the superior read of his works, but alas the Prince which favored to the market is better known.
Though his vision in his Art of War did bare fruit when he created and commanded Republican Florentine City-Milita. And granted if Wiki is to be believed influenced Gustavus Adolphus, Maurice of Nassau, and Frederick the Great.
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From what I understand the Discourses were a major influence on the American Founding Fathers, maybe the issue is to see it enter widespread acknowledged influence earlier.