WI Nicholas II was a Menshevik-sympathizer?

There is an interesting question for you. ;) This would of course require a POD in his life to occur BEFORE 1900, but because the focus is almost totally on the after 1900 period, I decided to go ahead and post it here. So, what if something early in his life made the future Nicholas II have socialistic leanings, enough that he supported many of the ideals of the Menshevik part of Social-Democratic Labor Party?

It isn't completely incompatible with the Monarchy. Bolshevism is, but not Socialism, as has been clearly shown historically. It would have to be a Constitutional Monarchy no doubt, but still.
 

Stalker

Banned
My guess is that it requres not only a POD in his life but the POD with whole change of dinastical view of the world. Menshevicks were a Labour Marxist Party a branch of RSDRP (Russian Social-Democratic Workers' Party) which separated from the Bolshevicks after the 2nd congress of RSDRP in 1903 and went for reformation rather than revolution.
Still, they remained marxists and that was the notion that harassed all Romanovs, to say more, that notion harassed every Royal House of Europe.
 
I'd say, with Socialism being what it was back then, this is pretty ASB. Nikolaj, for all his faults, was a decent, God-fearing man with good intentions; he wouldn't have supported an internationalist revolutionary movement that aimed to destroy Fair Russia. You'd have to pretty much have him suffer a Phineas Gage-style head injury for that to happen.
 
Hrm, good point. I forgot that Socialism was a fair deal more radical and less compromising than it is now. Though did the Mensheviks really support a belligerent policy of international revolution? I've never seen a source that suggests this.
 
It depends on what stage you're discussing, I guess; Socialism as a whole was a lot more militant back then. Even in Sweden, people like Per Albin Hansson (one of our most famous PMs) were pretty prepared to begin the Revolution by 1917. In any case, my description would be about how pretty much all the Russian elite would've viewed them, no matter what their actual policy was at any given time.
 
There is an interesting question for you. ;) This would of course require a POD in his life to occur BEFORE 1900, but because the focus is almost totally on the after 1900 period, I decided to go ahead and post it here. So, what if something early in his life made the future Nicholas II have socialistic leanings, enough that he supported many of the ideals of the Menshevik part of Social-Democratic Labor Party?

It isn't completely incompatible with the Monarchy. Bolshevism is, but not Socialism, as has been clearly shown historically. It would have to be a Constitutional Monarchy no doubt, but still.

You want the Tsar, who is head of the chruch, to support an atheist, anti-monarchial socialist movement that advocates his overthrow and execution?
 
With, say, another tutor, you might have a somewhat more liberal Tsar, who'd, say, approve of Stolypin's compromises. I can't see a Socialist one, though.
 
I have to admit, when I refreshed my memory for "Conservative Lenin" thread I was truly imporessed how far left all major political parties in pre-WWI Russia were. Most centrist one, Constitutional Democrats, were roughly where New Labor is now, and everybody else but Octobrists were much farther left. Even Octobrists would be "slightly right of centre" in today's Canada, "moderate right" in Europe and "somewhat left of GOP" in USA. It tells volumes about depth of rifts in the society.
 
I don't think the Mensheviks wanted to execute the Tsar. They definitely would have preferred a Republic, but don't you believe they might have been able to live with a Constitutional Monarchy if it meant a peaceful transition to power?

And if not the Mensheviks, what about the Kadets? They garnered a lot of support with the people in the first Duma, becoming the majority party there I do believe. Would a more liberal Nicholas II have been able to work with them?
 
Didn't the Czar have a relative who marched with the workers during the uprisings? I think people called him the Red Duke or something.

How'd he get Red (relatively)?
 

Stalker

Banned
Didn't the Czar have a relative who marched with the workers during the uprisings? I think people called him the Red Duke or something.

How'd he get Red (relatively)?
I'll start from the end. No, he didn't get Red. I was just the blow of fresh air and euphory. The same effect cn be achieved if somebody bangs you on the top of the head with a heavy stick... Say, like temporary obfuscation.:rolleyes:
That person was named Grand Duke Cyril Vladimirovich. The funny thing about him that after assasination of Nicholas II with the family and Michael Alexandrovich he claimed to become the primary pretender for the Russian throne-in-refuge. :D
His son, Grand Duke Vladimir Cyrilovich who died recently was bearing that title jealously.
@CanadianGoose: Excellent observation as it occurs to me. You opened that issue at quite a new angle and I cannot help agreeing with you.
@ all who may not know: To avoid misunderstanding, Kadets are just the shortening of Constitutional Democrates.
 

Sargon

Donor
Monthly Donor
Well, I'm not sure how workable this is. I keep thinking of Napoleon III, who of course, is often referred to as a 'socialist on horseback' for example because of his many programmes that benefited the poor, and even some of his left leaning policies plus the moves in his Liberal Empire period. France could be pretty violent in terms of socialist unrest. So the question is, could a Napoleon III-like analogue in social terms at least work in Russia?

It is up to if the Mensheviks can work with the idea of a Constitutional Monarchy. I can see a lot of them having issues with that, and it could create splits with some prepared to work with the Tsar, and others most definitely not. I'd think Nicholas II would need a fair amount of political acumen to pull this off, and I'm not entirely convinced he has enough of that to do so. Still, there is the possibility that with the PoD being before 1900, he may just pull something out of the hat. Getting some good advisors would be a start.


Sargon
 
Bump! Anyone else got any more ideas on how this could work? Nicholas doesn't have to be quite as incompetent as he was historically, since a POD early in his life could have lead to him being a bit more worldly and less detached from his people.
 
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