WI:Nicholas I,Duke of Lorraine marries Isabella I of Castille...

What if Nicholas I ,Duke of Lorraine marries Isabella I of Castille , Nicholas was also a possible claimant to the throne of Aragon and was supposedly the heir to Provence and Anjou and how would Portugal and France act..

would this result in a Valois dominated Spain?
 

Vitruvius

Donor
The only way I could see that happening is if Nicolas' father Jean was somehow successful in establishing himself in Barcelona. OTL he died in '66 and Nicolas stayed in France (he was actually courting Mary of Burgundy before he died in 1473 - that would have been an interesting marriage). Even then its hard to see the attraction for Isabella. Nicolas would have to contend with Ferdinand in Aragon and he has no presence in Italy. Instead he brings entanglements in France. Even if he controls Catalonia it would like be only with French support and a marriage with Isabella would ensure civil war in Spain for the next several decades.

I would assume that if such a marriage did happen Lorraine would pass to the Vaudemont line and Anjou to OTL Charles IV d'Anjou. So I suppose with a lot of hard campaigning in Aragon and Italy its possible to see Spain+Provence+Naples+Sicily. Since this deprives the French King of his claims to Naples there's a chance he will later ally with Ferdinand of Aragon (if he hasn't been killed in the fighting) since Nicolas now becomes the major threat to the crown.
 
There's also the fact that Isabella wanted to unite Spain and this goes in the opposite direction. It's difficult to recall a time when Isabella was actually prevented completely from doing what she wanted to do after she grew up, so this is not a good start.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
And Isabella needed Aragonese support to hold a strong enough position to inherit her brother Henry IV, who wanted his own daughter Joan to inherit.
 
The only way I could see that happening is if Nicolas' father Jean was somehow successful in establishing himself in Barcelona. OTL he died in '66 and Nicolas stayed in France (he was actually courting Mary of Burgundy before he died in 1473 - that would have been an interesting marriage). Even then its hard to see the attraction for Isabella. Nicolas would have to contend with Ferdinand in Aragon and he has no presence in Italy. Instead he brings entanglements in France. Even if he controls Catalonia it would like be only with French support and a marriage with Isabella would ensure civil war in Spain for the next several decades.

I would assume that if such a marriage did happen Lorraine would pass to the Vaudemont line and Anjou to OTL Charles IV d'Anjou. So I suppose with a lot of hard campaigning in Aragon and Italy its possible to see Spain+Provence+Naples+Sicily. Since this deprives the French King of his claims to Naples there's a chance he will later ally with Ferdinand of Aragon (if he hasn't been killed in the fighting) since Nicolas now becomes the major threat to the crown.
I think if Jean Valois(Joan) gets Aragon and Nicolas marries Isabel of Castille, it is possible that Ferdinand of Aragon will marry La Betraneja and I think Nicolas marrying Isabel will make Spain more Catalonian oriented than Castile oriented which is interesting or Nicolas and Isabel will only have Provence in the long run, an Independent Provence will butterfly the present status of Catalonia as the center of the 'Llemosins' culture..
 
Last edited:

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Well, there were several marriage plans for both Isabella and Ferdinand. When Ferdinand was a child, his parents wanted a marriage between him and Mary of Burgundy.

However, I say it again, if Isabella hadn't chose Ferdinand and secured Aragonese support, she might never have inherited Castille in the first place. Henry IV was trying to find a way to break the treaty of Guisando, and he secured Portuguese support for Joan as his heir. If Isabella hadn't Aragonese backing when Henry died, the Portuguese would have been able to place Joan on the Castillan throne.
 
Well, there were several marriage plans for both Isabella and Ferdinand. When Ferdinand was a child, his parents wanted a marriage between him and Mary of Burgundy.

However, I say it again, if Isabella hadn't chose Ferdinand and secured Aragonese support, she might never have inherited Castille in the first place. Henry IV was trying to find a way to break the treaty of Guisando, and he secured Portuguese support for Joan as his heir. If Isabella hadn't Aragonese backing when Henry died, the Portuguese would have been able to place Joan on the Castillan throne.
But what if Nicolas De Valois inherited inherited Aragon from his father after a successful war with the Aragonese Trastamaras...
 
Last edited:

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Then it would be different, if Nicholas was the ruler of Aragon, he would be Isabella's choice, since she needed the support of the Aragonese.
 
Top