WI Newfoundland was uninhabited when the Norse landed?

I'm curious as to what they grew in Greenland... it's widely known that they grazed livestock there, but were they able to grow any kind of grain there in that warm spell? If not, there's something that Vinland could trade...

Oats was the only cereal they grew there. As for what Vinlan could trade; timber and iron.
 
Oats was the only cereal they grew there. As for what Vinlan could trade; timber and iron.
I wonder how reliable the oat crop was there. Even during the warm spell, Greenland had to be pretty marginal for crops. Vinland could grow anything they could grow in Iceland or Scandinavia, and do it reliably. Timber is a certainty, but iron... how extensive were the bog iron deposits?
 
It worries me that we're relying on murderers to do this stuff. Vinland might be a pleasant land, but with some... hard people.

Iceland and much of Norway was settled by that kind of people. It didn't make a big difference in the long term, Vinland will suffer under feuding just as other Scandinavian areas with a weak state did, but it will only serve to further push settlement forward and for someone to try establish some kind of state like structure. It can end up as many petty kingdom under the major families, it can end up ecclessial states or the Norwegians and later Danes can establish control over them.
 
I wonder how reliable the oat crop was there.

Not very, oats was dropped as the climate grew colder.
Even during the warm spell, Greenland had to be pretty marginal for crops.

Yes

Vinland could grow anything they could grow in Iceland or Scandinavia, and do it reliably.

It could grow anything which grew in Norway. Newfoundland seem more Norwegian in climate, which are the Nordic country with the worst climate.

Timber is a certainty, but iron... how extensive were the bog iron deposits?

No idea, but seeing as Greenland lacked bog iron and fuel, I would say they don't need to be large to be economical.
 
But the Sagas don't reference the settlements we've found. So they suggest there's another, unknown settlement, right?
 
But the Sagas don't reference the settlements we've found. So they suggest there's another, unknown settlement, right?
do we know that for certain? As I understand it, the Sagas are a bit difficult to interpret because we don't really comprehend the sailing times they list (vaguely translated as "X number of 'days' sailing in this/that direction'). Different people have interpreted them differently...
 
But the Sagas don't reference the settlements we've found. So they suggest there's another, unknown settlement, right?

I'm a great fan of Occam's Razor, we know the Norse settle Greenland which was empty, we know that the Norse saga told us the native of Vinland was hostile and therefore they didn't settle there. So the simplest hypothese to why the Norse diodn't settle in Vinland are in my opinion that there was hostile natives there. Yes they may have decided not to settle there anyway, but seeing as they settled Greenland with a far worse climate, I see no reason for why they wouldn't.
 
I fail to see why the Norse wouldn't colonise Vinland if it was uninhabited. The Sagas never hid the fact, that hostile natives was the reason the Norse decided to not colonise Vinland. As for "hostile" climate, this was people who harvested oats on Greenland, and who decided to call Newfoundland for "Wine Land", do it seem to you people that it was a people who found the climate hostile?

I see you didn't bother to read the article I linked. The evidence is that the wine grapes and natives of Vinland were in reference to the station in New Brunswick. There were no natives at the Newfoundland station and that camp was never meant to be a permanent colonization attempt anyways.

I wonder if I'm doomed to keep repeating the same thing in every Vinland thread?
 
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No idea, but seeing as Greenland lacked bog iron and fuel, I would say they don't need to be large to be economical.
Could they spare the labour to set up extraction?

Everyone seems to think resource extraction is possible immediately from founding a colony but that's not the case unless massive amounts of initial investment are available.
Mines and whatnot will have to wait for farms first so the miners can be fed.
 
Could they spare the labour to set up extraction?

Everyone seems to think resource extraction is possible immediately from founding a colony but that's not the case unless massive amounts of initial investment are available.
Mines and whatnot will have to wait for farms first so the miners can be fed.

It's not really very labour intensive to produce bog iron.
 
Bog iron tends to form in predictable places, and the bacterial action that forms it produces a recognisable oily slick.

Apropos nothing, Iceland did have bog iron. Not sure if it was plentiful, but there was some and Icelanders did do ironworking.
 
WI the Norse discover the Grand Banks fisheries? That might be enough to draw the Norse to Vinland. At first, they might simply establish an outpost for salting fish before sailing back to Greenland, then to Europe. In the 1400s, Basque fishermen made the journey direct from Europe. Then when the climate starts to decline, the Norse begin moving from Greenland to Vinland.
 
WI the Norse discover the Grand Banks fisheries? That might be enough to draw the Norse to Vinland. At first, they might simply establish an outpost for salting fish before sailing back to Greenland, then to Europe. In the 1400s, Basque fishermen made the journey direct from Europe. Then when the climate starts to decline, the Norse begin moving from Greenland to Vinland.

I'd be curious as to whether importing fish might be seen as worthwhile for other Europeans. Northumbria importing Vinlandic Salted Fish?

Seems unlikely to me. Since it is fish.
 
I'd be curious as to whether importing fish might be seen as worthwhile for other Europeans. Northumbria importing Vinlandic Salted Fish?

Seems unlikely to me. Since it is fish.
Might be enough to slow the decline of the Greenland settlements. Whether that provides a sound base to regrow from depends on what population is left, and conflict with rival fishers.
 
15th century ships were bigger. They could transport more cargo with same cost and were less likely to be damaged in Atlantic bad weather.

It would not be profitable to haul fish from the Grand Banks to Europe in a knarr.
 
So Salted Fish to Greenland (Really? They couldn't catch enough fish there?) in exchange for....?

Hmm.

Perhaps a triangle trade with Europe (more likely Britain)?

So Vinlandic Fish (and mead/other goods) to Greenland

Greenland trades the food for hunting goods (on the assumption that with a food and booze supply, Greenland can focus on hunting polar bears and the like - I don't know a lot about Greenland, so somebody describe what they have to see).

Those goods are shipped to "Europe", where they are traded for iron, etc, and maybe a bit of raiding whilst in port (say stashed in N.Ireland/Scotland/Britain), and then sail back to Vinland to complete the circuit.

Is there a triangle trade route that would work? (I've thrown in raiding because an unpopulated Vinland is a pretty good place to stash your loot with family, nobody is attacking you there any time soon.)
 
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