WI: Nerve agents proliferated pre-WWII?

An oddity of WWII is that Germany had a weapon of mass destruction that it never used, nerve gas. The first of the type was Tabun, invented in 1936. Later in the war, it's relative, Sarin was also invented by the Germans. This class of chemical agents were far more effective than WWI era blistering agents. Yet Germany was deterred from using these weapons due to fear that their enemies had similar nerve agents (they did not), as well as superior methods to deliver greater quantities of less sophisticated chemical weapons on German cities.

But what if nerve agents really were proliferated among the major powers as Germany had feared? If France and Britain had weaponized Tabun before WWII would it lead to a Mutually Assured Destruction balance of terror scenario reminicent of the Cold War?
 
An oddity of WWII is that Germany had a weapon of mass destruction that it never used, nerve gas. The first of the type was Tabun, invented in 1936. Later in the war, it's relative, Sarin was also invented by the Germans. This class of chemical agents were far more effective than WWI era blistering agents. Yet Germany was deterred from using these weapons due to fear that their enemies had similar nerve agents (they did not), as well as superior methods to deliver greater quantities of less sophisticated chemical weapons on German cities.

But what if nerve agents really were proliferated among the major powers as Germany had feared? If France and Britain had weaponized Tabun before WWII would it lead to a Mutually Assured Destruction balance of terror scenario reminicent of the Cold War?

tallwingedgoat

Very likely. If you remember the panic in the allied camp to reassure the Germans after an allied ship carrying gas is damaged off Anzio. Neither side wanted to expand the war that much. Especially the Germans who would have been so much more vulnerable. Has also been a suggestion that having been gassed in WWI Hitler was strongly opposed to its use - at least against armed opposition.

Steve
 
Toxic gas durning WWII was the A-Bomb of the Korean War. Germany had the potential to bomb Britain if they used nerve gas on Britain it would be aweful, remeber that while the lose the French fleet they had most of France's gas.
As well that statement isn't entirely accurate Germany did use nerve gas in concentration camps.
 
tallwingedgoat

Very likely. If you remember the panic in the allied camp to reassure the Germans after an allied ship carrying gas is damaged off Anzio. Neither side wanted to expand the war that much. Especially the Germans who would have been so much more vulnerable. Has also been a suggestion that having been gassed in WWI Hitler was strongly opposed to its use - at least against armed opposition.

Steve

Regarding this latter point I came across quotes in the book "Hitler Speaks", written by a German diplomat defector in 1939 quoting Hitler talking in the early 30s about gas being perfectly a acceptable weapon.
 
tallwingedgoat

Very likely. If you remember the panic in the allied camp to reassure the Germans after an allied ship carrying gas is damaged off Anzio.

You wouldn't be thinking about the sinking of the John Harvey in the port of Bari, by any chance, instead? If not, I'd like to hear more about this second event involving a ship carrying gases in the Italian campaign.
 
You wouldn't be thinking about the sinking of the John Harvey in the port of Bari, by any chance, instead? If not, I'd like to hear more about this second event involving a ship carrying gases in the Italian campaign.

Michele

Quite possibly. I thought it was off Anzio but working from memory. One of the ships in the supporting elements of the fleet carried gas weapons, to give the ability to retaliate if the Germans opened that particular pandora's box. It got damage/sunk and there was a leak heading towards shore. The allies made frantic efforts to explain the situations to the Germans less they think the allies had commenced chemical warfare and thing get really nasty.

Steve
 

Hendryk

Banned
One thing I've been wondering about is the possibility of the Japanese using nerve agents in China. Since they did resort to chemical and bacteriological warfare, I don't see why they wouldn't have used tabun and/or sarin if they had it in their arsenal. Now since, as tallwingedgoat says, tabun was invented in 1936, that means Japan could request the production method from Germany after joining the Axis, and start their own program.
 
I may surprise some people to learn that Germany shared a lot of military research with the Soviet Union in the 1930s. I guess they did a good job keeping nerve agents secret. Because if Stalin had it he would certainly use it in 1941.
 

randomkeith

Banned
I remember reading that when the American's entered the North Africa campaign the German's were worried as they were bringing ashore drum after drum of a chemical with "Gas" written on the side.

It was only after the Americanisation of the word "Gas" was explained to them that they were happy.
 
I remember reading that when the American's entered the North Africa campaign the German's were worried as they were bringing ashore drum after drum of a chemical with "Gas" written on the side.

It was only after the Americanisation of the word "Gas" was explained to them that they were happy.

Sounds very apocryphal. Could you quote the source, please? Thank you.
 
I struggle to see it changing very much, unless you can offer reason why these should really be that more terrifying than other available weapons. More lethal they may be but then extensive use of mustard gas or anthrax is hardly going to be pleasant.
 
Well in 1940 France and Britain were basically powerless to stop the blitzkrieg. The logistics of the blitzkrieg was mostly carried out by horses. Nerve gas would kill these horses and bring the German invasion to a stop.

Furthermore nerve gas attacks on the civilian population would be horrific since there were no antidote for them at the time. The gas masks designed for blister agents were also useless against nerve gas. Unlike WWI, bombers of the time could now reach cities deep behind the lines. Hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of Germans would die. This puts it squarely in the strategic deterrent catagory.
 
I may surprise some people to learn that Germany shared a lot of military research with the Soviet Union in the 1930s. I guess they did a good job keeping nerve agents secret. Because if Stalin had it he would certainly use it in 1941.

Stalin almost certaintly had Mustard and Phosgene... and didn't use it. If both sides in OTL were unwilling to use poison gas its unlikely they would in ATL. (and the fact that we're talking about mortal enemies Hitler and Stalin unwilling to use it against each other)

Both sides were terrified of having their own forces gassed in retaliation so neither side used poison gas. If both sides have nerve gas there's no reason for that opinion to change, if anything the urge to avoid retaliation may be stronger.
 
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