WI: Nero never becomes emperor
- Thread starter Night Gaul
- Start date
It all depends on the POD and who becomes emperor in his place. Are we looking at a surviving Britannicus? Or something else?
Nero was already emperor when Britannicus died, so his survival wouldn't change that.
You might be on to something, though. Maybe Claudius never designates Nero as his heir.
I was suggesting Britannicus' survival as a possible POD to have Nero out of the succession, but if he is also out of the picture, the descendants of Julia the Younger (eldest granddaughter of Augustus) are the most likely candidates to assume the throne (that is, if we're looking for a Julio-Claudian). Marcus Julius Silanus or his son, Marcus Julius Silanus Torquatus could work. The former was seen as a possible successor to Claudius until his assassination in 54 AD (by Agrippina the Younger, no surprise), and the latter was seen as an alternative to Nero throughout his reign.
- Claudius: I've decided to have my chef test my wife's cooking for poison.
- Agrippina: visibly sweats
Most likely POD is Claudius never marrying his niece Agrippina as either Messalina remain Empress or Claudius married Lollia Paulina or less likely remarried Aelia Paetina in her place, keeping Nero away from the throne
Would it extend his life? I know about my joke, but I'm wondering if the idea that Agrippina poisoned him is what most likely happened
It's not clear, but most ancient sources suspect he was poisoned, and Agrippina is usually blamed (considering her ambition and history, it is very likely), though the possibility of him dying of natural causes isn't ruled out.
I think the POD would involve Claudius marrying someone else after the whole Messalina mess, however he'd run into a similar situation as he did with Agrippina. I.e. the new wife would want to see 'her' child as Claudius's successor, that is if the pair managed to have a boy together, OR if she can talk Claudius into adopting a son she had had from a previous marriage.
The 'best' POD for Britannicus would be if his father never remarried, like he initially swore would be the case.
The 'best' POD for Britannicus would be if his father never remarried, like he initially swore would be the case.
All depends on the POD ive been slightly working on one. My favorite is Britannicus surviving their are 2 possinle ways this works. Either Claudius isnt poisoned and both Agrippina and Nero are discovered for attempted murder and exiled allowijg Claudius to live a few more years maybe to 60/61 or so. Allowing Britannicus to mature and perhaps gain expierience with Corbulo against Parthia.
The alternate is have Claudius die like otl but in his will Agrippina is divorced and Nero disinherited and exiled, and Britannicus named his hier with the praetorians given a healthy donative to keep them loyal. This version would most likely make A young inexperienced Britannicus relying kn Corbulo and Vespasian to fight the wars
You know who neither of that would work?
Well considering who Lollia Paulina was childless while Aelia was the mother of Claudius’ elder daughter I do not think who either would given more children to Claudius (and in any case said children would be much younger than Britannicus so not serious rivals for him)
What? If your saying that neither of those would work i would like to know why?
I think the reign of Nero was a very pivotal period for the empire because it was the last time an emperor sought to legitimize their primary base of support in Rome. After Nero's death, the Roman mob never again played a particularly important part in any imperial regime (with a few odd exceptions like Maxentius or Petronius Maximus). The rise of Nero to power was essentially a by-product of this populist will, who preferred Nero, who was a descendant of Augustus to Britannicus, who had no close blood ties to the first emperor. In this way, the death of Nero was really the point where "restoring the republic" was really and truly officially dead. Roman power would forever after be monarchical, with very little credence given to the legitimizing facade of the "first citizen". However, I believe this trend began with Claudius, whom was the first emperor to depose his predecessor (or at least to rise after his predecessor's assassination, if you believe Claudius was not involved in the conspiracy to overthrow Gaius). So, even if Nero had not risen to power, for whatever reason, the trend toward blatant military autocracy was already well underway, and if Britannicus or one of the Junii Silani, or Sulla Felix, or Rubellius Plautus had succeeded Claudius, eventually one of them would have fallen victim to a similar coup to that of Galba's. It may even occur faster than IOTL.
I think this is less than plausible. Claudius' haste to remarry after the purge following Messalina's fall from power was likely a result of his own fears about the security of his regime. A marriage to a politically marginal candidate like one of his previous wives or another woman from an obscure family would not serve to strengthen his regime, and he would likely face another attempted coup (like those of Silius, Scribonianus, and others). His only answer to this (precluding to Agrippina) would be a marriage to a prominent senatorial woman. I'm not sure who he might pick, but remaining single would probably be political suicide. Marrying Agrippina was a political risk (as she had a political constituency of her own, including Seneca, Burrus, and others), but the alternative might have been even worse.
I think this is probably unenforceable. Tiberius' will included Gemellus as a co-ruler to Gaius, but Gaius induced the senate to invalidate Tiberius' will and there's no reason that the praetorians or any other military constituency would be able to force a similar set of circumstances.
I think this is less than plausible. Claudius' haste to remarry after the purge following Messalina's fall from power was likely a result of his own fears about the security of his regime. A marriage to a politically marginal candidate like one of his previous wives or another woman from an obscure family would not serve to strengthen his regime, and he would likely face another attempted coup (like those of Silius, Scribonianus, and others). His only answer to this (precluding to Agrippina) would be a marriage to a prominent senatorial woman. I'm not sure who he might pick, but remaining single would probably be political suicide. Marrying Agrippina was a political risk (as she had a political constituency of her own, including Seneca, Burrus, and others), but the alternative might have been even worse.
I think this is probably unenforceable. Tiberius' will included Gemellus as a co-ruler to Gaius, but Gaius induced the senate to invalidate Tiberius' will and there's no reason that the praetorians or any other military constituency would be able to force a similar set of circumstances.
Marrying Agrippina was a pretty big risk plus was something forbidden by Romans laws so Claudius would have a good reason for not marrying her. Aelia Paetina, who was a relative of Seianus, was quite liked, while Lollia Paulina was very rich and came from a senatorial family...
What Claudius really needed was an engagement between Britannicus and some descendant of Augustus like Cassia Longina (who is too young for being married to Claudius but 5/6 years older than Britannicus). If Silius’ wife Junia Silana was Cassia’s aunt (and not Caligula’s sister-in-law) she would be a good match for Claudius being a descendant of Augustus...
Killing or exiling Agrippina and Nero after accusing her to have tried to poison him would be simply Claudius’ end without ifs or buts...
Divorcing her and disinheriting Nero in his testament would be probably illegal, and surely without any sense and most likely will not work
Well i disagree with u. As for who Britannicus would marry a good option is one of the daughters of Corbulo one of which was a similair age and the other younger than britannicus. They were also descendants of Augustus.
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Pretty unlikely who Claudius will be able to proof anything against Agrippina...
the daughters of Corbulo are at least 8/10 years younger than Britannicus (as they are the OTL daughters of Cassia Longina, who I suggested as wife for Britannicus)
Cassia would not work as she was already betrothed or married to Corbulo and thier first daughter was born in late 40s. Thier oldest domitia would be the best possible candidate for Britannicus. They could have been married around 61 62 as she was otl married by 63 doesnt say what year just by 63
I think the eldest daughter is born in the early 50s as Cassia is born around 35 so is unlikely she will be married before 50
Romans usually married kf their daughter young around the age of 13 14, and Domitia was married of by at least 63, so its easy to get from that info that Cassia was probably married around 47 48 ish definitely before 50