WI Nazi Germany vitorious what would todays world be like

[UncleDynamite]

The Nazi party was one of, if not the worst organization in the history of mankind. The kind of "weeding out" you refer to would make Stalin's purges look moderate by comparison.

Not just worst in terms of morality(though it was certainly an organization of evil, and not the fun kind), the Nazi power structure was deliberately and literally designed to be as corrupt and inefficient as possible. If you think Nazi military government was incompetent*, just wait until you see Nazi civilian administration!

*This isn't to say a non-incompetent German government could have won the war, at least not the "GERMANIA FROM TEH ATLANTIC TO TEH URUHLS!!11!1!!1! fantasy the Nazis ascribed to.

More than that though, when you consider who those who operated in the highest echelons of power in the Nazi state a purge of their political enemies is more likely to get rid of the sane people (you know, the ones on the level of a typical serial killer) than the really crazy ones (Heinrich Himmler).

Hey, Himmler was only one or two standard deviations more horrible than the average serial killer. Heydrich was the really nasty one.

 

[Sibahl Khan Noonien Singh]

Not just worst in terms of morality(though it was certainly an organization of evil, and not the fun kind), the Nazi power structure was deliberately and literally designed to be as corrupt and inefficient as possible. If you think Nazi military government was incompetent*, just wait until you see Nazi civilian administration!

*This isn't to say a non-incompetent German government could have won the war, at least not the "GERMANIA FROM TEH ATLANTIC TO TEH URUHLS!!11!1!!1! fantasy the Nazis ascribed to.



Hey, Himmler was only one or two standard deviations more horrible than the average serial killer. Heydrich was the really nasty one.

Ah yes good old Reinhard Tristan Eugen Heydrich that's one that'll give kid nightmares!

Though I have to admit I do admire Rommel!

 

[wcv215]

Not just worst in terms of morality(though it was certainly an organization of evil, and not the fun kind), the Nazi power structure was deliberately and literally designed to be as corrupt and inefficient as possible. If you think Nazi military government was incompetent*, just wait until you see Nazi civilian administration!

Unfortunately very true.

*This isn't to say a non-incompetent German government could have won the war, at least not the "GERMANIA FROM TEH ATLANTIC TO TEH URUHLS!!11!1!!1! fantasy the Nazis ascribed to.

Well a non-incompetent German government wouldn't have tried to build that particular empire.

Hey, Himmler was only one or two standard deviations more horrible than the average serial killer. Heydrich was the really nasty one.

*Shudder*

Please, let's not talk about him.

 

[UncleDynamite]

Ah yes good old Reinhard Tristan Eugen Heydrich that's one that'll give kid nightmares!

Though I have to admit I do admire Rommel!

Reinhard Heydrich was so cartoonishly evil that if he did not exist, the Allies would have seen fit to invent him as a propaganda tool.

Rommel, of course, was not a Nazi nor even a war criminal. He was a consummate military commander who took "my country right or wrong" a little too far, though he tried to atone for it in the end in an attempt to overthrow Hitler, losing his life in the blowback.

 

[Sibahl Khan Noonien Singh]

Unfortunately very true.



Well a non-incompetent German government wouldn't have tried to build that particular empire.




.

Think of it like this it could have been competent Nazi's in this ATL!

 

[UncleDynamite]

Well a non-incompetent German government wouldn't have tried to build that particular empire.

That's a bingo!

 

[wcv215]

Think of it like this it could have been competent Nazi's in this ATL!

Competent Nazis aren't Nazis. If you eliminate everything that made them incompetent lunatics then you eliminate what made them such an effective political force in the first place. Without that they will not win the Chancellorship, and likely will wither as a party. In addition, the changes from this would mean WWII as we know it is butterflied.

 

[Sibahl Khan Noonien Singh]

Competent Nazis aren't Nazis. If you eliminate everything that made them incompetent lunatics then you eliminate what made them such an effective political force in the first place. Without that they will not win the Chancellorship, and likely will wither as a party. In addition, the changes from this would mean WWII as we know it is butterflied.

You have to admidt though before the war Hitler did have some competent economic polices thus making Germany the first nation to get out of the depression,the genius was there just not properly directed.

But then again if they had of been more competent they would have been even more deadly because they could have focused laser like on their aims and achieved them.

Remember this incompetence caused their defeat,competence would have insured they stayed around a lot longer even if they only had from the urals to the atlantic

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Competent Nazis aren't Nazis. If you eliminate everything that made them incompetent lunatics then you eliminate what made them such an effective political force in the first place. Without that they will not win the Chancellorship, and likely will wither as a party. In addition, the changes from this would mean WWII as we know it is butterflied.

You could still have a WWII involving a non-Nazi, vanilla fascist German regime that simply wants to regain its territories. Though I think that if the DNVP was chosen to lead Germany instead of the Nazis, they may not have as much political clout as Hitler did, but they could prevent those nuclear scientists from fleeing Germany.

Strasserite Nazis could still be incompetent though.

 

[CthulhuFhtagn]

You have to admidt though before the war Hitler did have some competent economic polices thus making Germany the first nation to get out of the depression,the genius was there just not properly directed.

But then again if they had of been more competent they would have been even more deadly because they could have focused laser like on their aims and achieved them.

Remember this incompetence caused their defeat,competence would have insured they stayed around a lot longer even if they only had from the urals to the atlantic

Hitler's economic policies were not competent. They were based on using military spending to create the illusion of economic recovery, and it very likely would have all come crashing down even without WWII. The only genius Hitler had was the political genius necessary to convince the largest nation in Western Europe to follow a madman into hell.

 

[UncleDynamite]

You could still have a WWII involving a non-Nazi, vanilla fascist German regime that simply wants to regain its territories. Though I think that if the DNVP was chosen to lead Germany instead of the Nazis, they may not have as much political clout as Hitler did, but they could prevent those nuclear scientists from fleeing Germany.

Strasserite Nazis could still be incompetent though.

Generic fascists or right-wing authoritarians could win a war, though it would be aimed at gaining a few territories in the East(Posen, Corridor) then stopping. The gains would be much, much, harder fought than OTL because we wouldn't see a military build-up of the same scale.

 

[Sibahl Khan Noonien Singh]

You could still have a WWII involving a non-Nazi, vanilla fascist German regime that simply wants to regain its territories. Though I think that if the DNVP was chosen to lead Germany instead of the Nazis, they may not have as much political clout as Hitler did, but they could prevent those nuclear scientists from fleeing Germany.

Strasserite Nazis could still be incompetent though.

I disagree with all Nazi's being incompetent though,thats basically saying if it's a Nazi it's automatically incompetent,taking into fact that in a ATL instead of Hitler it might have been someone else leading the party and Germany,or it might have been a saner and surprisingly competent version of Hitler in power.

Well have to remember with an ATL not everything is going to be the same as in our time line and things or people that seem the same might just be different in various ways.

Seems so many are trying to apply things about the Nazi's of our timeline to an ATL history and what it's outcome would be.That would be like an ATL version of my self rising to power to rule from the pacific to the Urals and from the artic wastes to the tip of South America speculating that My in the prime universe did exactly the same thing just because i'm him in another time line.

 

[wcv215]

You have to admidt though before the war Hitler did have some competent economic polices thus making Germany the first nation to get out of the depression,the genius was there just not properly directed.

I don't have to admit anything of the sort, largely because it isn't true.

Germany wasn't brought out of the Depression the Nazi party. Rather it was the military build-up that the Nazis started that caused the artificial growth in the German country. And most of it was funded by debt, debt that couldn't be paid back because of the instability of the German economy. Furthermore, because of this the Nazi state was incapable of continuing their economic programs in the long run. That's why they had to plunder the treasuries of the countries they conquered. Without that money that funded the German military machine there is nothing left to continue paying for that growth.

But then again if they had of been more competent they would have been even more deadly because they could have focused laser like on their aims and achieved them.

Remember this incompetence caused their defeat,competence would have insured they stayed around a lot longer even if they only had from the urals to the atlantic

Only from the Urals to the Atlantic?

No, just no. Germany was an even match from a numbers perspective in a war against the Soviet Union alone, but it wasn't just fighting the USSR. It was also fighting a slightly lower numbers level opponent in the UK, and a country that outweighed the entire Axis by more than 2 to 1.

 

[Sibahl Khan Noonien Singh]

I don't have to admit anything of the sort, largely because it isn't true.

Germany wasn't brought out of the Depression the Nazi party. Rather it was the military build-up that the Nazis started that caused the artificial growth in the German country. And most of it was funded by debt, debt that couldn't be paid back because of the instability of the German economy. Furthermore, because of this the Nazi state was incapable of continuing their economic programs in the long run. That's why they had to plunder the treasuries of the countries they conquered. Without that money that funded the German military machine there is nothing left to continue paying for that growth.

( what brought them out of the depression was Massive civil engineering projects, armaments manufacture, and, to a lesser extent, an expansion of the military.

The key was construction -- Gerrmans built things (like, say, the entire Autobahn system and thousands of bombers).
This stimulated many sectors of the economy, and lifted the country out of the Depression.

here in the USA we tried to do much the same thing -- with the TVA)

Only from the Urals to the Atlantic?

(Yup because of I came to power as a dictator that's what i'd aim for plus i'm allowed as I'm speculating on what my ATL version is currently speculating on me )



No, just no. Germany was an even match from a numbers perspective in a war against the Soviet Union alone, but it wasn't just fighting the USSR. It was also fighting a slightly lower numbers level opponent in the UK, and a country that outweighed the entire Axis by more than 2 to 1.

yeh but in an ATL france could have been knocked out faster they could have been no stopping their forces short at Dunkirk which would have knocked brits out of it for a while,heck the usa might not have entered the war at all,theres variables man.

 

[CthulhuFhtagn]

yeh but in an ATL france could have been knocked out faster they could have been no stopping their forces short at Dunkirk which would have knocked brits out of it for a while,heck the usa might not have entered the war at all,theres variables man.

Britain would not have surrendered, because the Nazis had no way to cross the Channel. By 1940, the USA was clearly helping the Allies, and was on a collision course for war with Japan. After war begins with Japan, war with Germany is more or less inevitable.

There are many variables in how exactly it happens, and how exactly it ends. But, by the time of the Fall of France, the US was going to end up at war with the Nazis. Whether that means landing troops at Normandy or dropping nukes on Berlin is another matter entirely.

 

[Sibahl Khan Noonien Singh]

Britain would not have surrendered, because the Nazis had no way to cross the Channel. By 1940, the USA was clearly helping the Allies, and was on a collision course for war with Japan. After war begins with Japan, war with Germany is more or less inevitable.

There are many variables in how exactly it happens, and how exactly it ends. But, by the time of the Fall of France, the US was going to end up at war with the Nazis. Whether that means landing troops at Normandy or dropping nukes on Berlin is another matter entirely.

I concede that the brits wouldn't have surrendered,but they would have been out of it for a while from a ground based war point of view and if Operation sea Lion could have happened Britian would have been utterly defeated more then likely securing Hitlers western door for quite a while.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

I doubt that Sealion would have occurred, but if it did, then the Kriegsmarine would have been weakened to the point where they are unable to use their U-Boats to sink the merchant ships in the Atlantic. As in, they'd probably lose more warships or submarines.

Not even a similar blockade to the Allied blockade of Japan could have worked as well.

 

[CthulhuFhtagn]

I concede that the brits wouldn't have surrendered,but they would have been out of it for a while from a ground based war point of view and if Operation sea Lion could have happened Britian would have been utterly defeated more then likely securing Hitlers western door for quite a while.

See, but that's the problem. Operation Sealion could not have occurred. Now, if Skippy the ASB makes it so that it does occur, your whole scenario becomes possible.

 

[Sibahl Khan Noonien Singh]

See, but that's the problem. Operation Sealion could not have occurred. Now, if Skippy the ASB makes it so that it does occur, your whole scenario becomes possible.

Couldn't you have given a simple,sensiable reasonable answer like Marshal Braginsky did instead of getting all sarcastic?

I mean yeh it's the internet but comeon still show some manners and respect dude

 

[Kou Gakei]

Don't expect respect when you're talking of ASB as being remotely possible.