WI: Nazi Attack on the United States Instead?

What could have caused 9/11 or Pearl Harbor-type attack on a major area in the United States by Nazi Germany, before or instead of Pearl Harbor? How would this affect American intervention in World War II? Would the Japanese still attack, or would the Pacific and European wars stay separate?
 
Like, say, Nazis attack an American military base on the East Coast in 1941 instead of invading the Soviet Union.
 
Like, say, Nazis attack an American military base on the East Coast in 1941 instead of invading the Soviet Union.

Well the question is "Why?"

While the Nazi were incompetent asswipes they weren't completely out of touch with reality, what did they theoretically have to gain by doing such?
 
Perhaps something convinces Hitler that he can get the US to stop supporting ENgland if he sinks some US shipping with loss of life?

And launches Operation Drumbeat early as a surprise? With all 12 type IX boats?

An insane idea even for Hitler. But...
 
Well the question is "Why?"

While the Nazi were incompetent asswipes they weren't completely out of touch with reality, what did they theoretically have to gain by doing such?
Maybe for the same reason that the Japanese did, with the US sending aid to the Allies in Europe, the Nazis might have though that the best way to stop this would be to try and cripple the US.
 
Germany was not in the possition to directly attack the USA on a large scale sort of military operation in the whole period of the WW2. Any sort of german inspired attack would have to have come from domestic sources already inside the USA. (There was a large group of US Citizens affliniated with the ideology of National Socialism and Fascism.)
 
this is an odd thread

1. Would never happen.
2. Could not happen.

the result some squadrons of aircrafts out of fuel in the middle of the Atlantic. An eventual attack fleet would unavoidably be spotted and sunk. Prominent generals coup Hitler without any problems.
 
I doubt the Germans could have done anything more destructive than they already did during the Second Happy Time aside from more Type XI's appearing faster and provided with better mapping. Springing Operation Drumbeat on the Americans earlier, when they would be less prepared, was allegedly considered however.
 
This is ASB but interesting. I remember a Wendell Wilkie campaign speech where h charged that Roosevelt would get us into war by April 1941. sSo let's say the Nazis attack in April and Congress declares war. I think that the sanctions against Japan happen just OTL When the Japanese attack the US bases are more alert and more of the fleet is saved. tTorch happens in March 1942.
 
Militarily not feasible. Too far away and would take too much in men and resources. Besides, why beat up on America (and get beaten up yourself) when you can beat up on France and England which are much closer?

Also, there was a segment of Americans who were sympathetic to Fascism and the Nazis. Attacking America would have disolved this segemnt Germany may have viewed as an allie (excuse spelling) within.

Many Americans were also isolationist and neutral. The Nazis knew that. I think it was in Germany's interest to have the USA not in the war. They knew attacking the USA would bring the USA full force into the war against them (Germany) and disolve any issolationist neutral sentiment there might be.
 
American isolationism was dead by 1940. Aside from holdouts in Congress, most of Roosevelt's policies had political and popular support. Polling of Americans showed that a majority favored US aid to the Allies, and greater involvement in world affairs.
 
This actually isn't ASB for a terror-type attack, except for the lingering question of why the Germans would want to provoke the United States. Nazi ideology was in part about Lebensraum and that pointed to war in the East, not with the US. But, then again, Hitler wasn't exactly prone to rational thought...

If you're just looking for a terror-type attack you might be able to cripple US shipping in a few of the major East Coast ports for a time by sailing facsimiles of foreign-flagged ships filled with high explosives into ports like Boston, Baltimore and New York and simply blowing them up simultaneously. It would be a suicide mission, of course, but I think it's somewhat plausible as a concept.

But, again, why? It makes little sense. The damage would be repaired rather quickly and the US would then have entered the war firmly on the side of the UK even before Barbarossa. It achieves no meaningful tactical or strategic purpose.
 
I can see one possibility. The use of a submarine group against the USN. A sort of underwater PH. The most obvious would have been when US forces replaced British ground forces on Iceland in early 1941. To warn off the US and other wise make a poltical statement a wolf pack is sent to ambush the USN transports and escorts carrying the USN & Marine units into Icelands ports.

A bit more difficult would be having a wolfpack ambush the USN as a task force departs a east coast naval base. Torpedoing a carrier, battleship, and several lesser ships would 'send a message' and temporarily cripple the Atlantic fleet, even if none of the larger ships are sunk.

Someone else proposed a large scale bomb attack by agents or saboteurs in the US. I am skeptical the German special ops units had the ability to do this on the requred scale.
 
I think the biggest unanswered question here is why. Why would the Nazis attack the USA? They had nothing to gain from it, and everything to lose. So why do it? Hitler was crazy but he wasn't stupid at least not that stupid.
 
Germany either World War lacked the surface navy and ships, especially troop ships, to invade England although they did manage Norway and Finland. If they had built a sizable surface Navy in the 1930's, they wouldn't have had the steel to build an army sufficient for it's far more important European campaigns so Austria and the Sudatenland yes, Poland probably not and France certainly not for invasion.

Sending troops in a passenger liner for a nucleus would be feasible, like the attack in Danzig and in Norway but only once and at the very start of hostilities, at best a few thousand infantry with perhaps artillery, tanks, and trucks arriving on coordinated freighters. Seizing the Panama Canal would be the most possible for such a stroke, sized force, and ability to get shipping there. The U.S. had a sizable surface navy and far more commercial and passenger shipping to utilize in response although it would have taken months to even get Marines down there in response during which time the Canal's equipment could have been thoroughly wrecked (as a suicide mission and one that would only help the Japanese Navy by slowing U.S. naval reinforcement of the Pacific fleet-big deal in 1942 though.)

There was an alt history novel with a German Panzer expeditionary force sent by cargo ships into Northern Mexico and then striking across the border presumably to disrupt the oil fields in West Texas or copper mines in Arizona (low yield for throwing away precious tanks and tank crews, they were always critically short of these.) The novel had Apaches, Hopi, local ranchers etc. responding in a replay of cavalry vs. Apaches that was an entertaining novel.

The most likely way to beat the logistics and sea lift requirements would be taking the German American Bund movement to actively organizing guerrillas and full military units to seize or disrupt key areas like Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Cincinnatti, Texas, etc. with quite large German-American populations (there's actually more Americans of German descent than British Isles, around 28 million currently, and in the 1930's many were only a generation or two emigrated.) So putting together a German-American "army" the size of the regular Army of 300,000 or so men scattered at small posts in the U.S., Pacific, etc. and armed primarily with bolt-action Springfield or Enfield rifles, WWI machine guns, a few hundred trucks and tanks, fewer still modern artillery pieces, and few aircraft would be more "doable" than it initially sounds. A few cargo ships with light and heavy machine guns, anti-aircraft 88's, some half-tracks and light tanks to obsolete for France, lots of grenades and mortars, and they'd have a competitive force for the 1930's-1940 Army. Fighting many small battles across the Midwest would certainly disrupt America's ability and interest in supplying the British, Russians, and Chinese forces but that'd take a lot of foresight to realize how crippled Stalin would be without U.S. massive aid or that the U.S. would and could build enough cargo ships quickly enough to outpace U-Boat sinkings and sustain the British Isles. Assuming, somehow, the fighting went on from 1940-1943 in the U.S. that might tip the balance for Russia being forced to the peace table with Germany and perhaps Britain starved into submission or losing Egypt and the Suez Canal without U.S. armor and artillery supplementing the British forces in Egypt. It'd also give probably a 1-2 year breathing space for Japan to repair and utilize the Dutch East Indies' oilfields, Malaya's rubber, and Indochina's mines into their supply chains while not attacking Pearl Harbor or the Phillipines and leaving the U.S. out of it in the Pacific. Generally that kind of long term warfare in the U.S. would require a supplying government providing arms, funds, training, intelligence, etc. and it's a long ways from Germany or Argentina for that matter and that'd take significant changes in Mexico in the late 1930's-40's to be supportive.
 
Germany lacked the naval and air capability to launch an attack on the United States. More importantly, why? There is absolutely no point in dragging in the United States for no reason other than 'lol teh evulz'
 
The reason for the attack is simple, and really the same one as OTL. The USA was giving Britain massive amounts of aid virtually for free; Destroyers for Bases, Lend-Lease, escorting convoys half-way, etc. America was taking militant actions against Germany, and it was only logical the Germans respond in some way.

Their main option is to begin submarine warfare as they did OTL. Not as flashy as Pearl Harbor, but plenty capable of inflicting losses to the Allies and causing outrage in America. If Hitler decides to strike independently of Pearl Harbor, perhaps more long-range U-boats could be committed in the surprise offensive, as other posters have mentioned. With a slightly earlier POD, Germany could build extra long range submarines in anticipation of war with the USA. Another creative and somewhat plausible approach could be research into submersible seaplane carriers and minisubs like the Japanese, and frogmen like the Italians. Saboteurs were a failure IOTL, but they could be a component of whatever the Nazis try. Perhaps Kreigsmarine heavy cruisers and merchant raiders could launch pinprick air raids with seaplanes, before continuing their surface raids. Vichy French colonies would be convenient locations for covert sub refueling, maybe an air raid or two, if they can get Petain et al to go along with it.


When all is said and done though, it will only prolong the inevitable. America and the rest of the Allies have enough industrial power to absorb initial loses and come back and crush the Nazis. I believe in WWI, there was a point where unrestricted submarine warfare was so effective, Britain was within a few weeks of starving and surrender. I can't recall and similar periods in WWII, where an extra-effective surge might knock Britain out of the war. I believe they learned their lessons in convoy warfare and made a point to stockpile food, fuel and all the rest of the goodies to prevent any similar close calls. But if anyone knows of a time when Britain was on the brink with regards to the U-boat threat in WWII, let me know, because that would be when an undersea offensive would be optimal.
 
We can all agree that Nazi Germany lacked the capability to invade the US-but the OP specifically mentioned something along the lines of Peral Harbor or 9/11, i.e., a raid or the equivalent of a commando raid. The idea is concievable (workable is-as always-another matter)...with the early success of Barbarossa Hitler might jump back to thoughts of finally dealing with the UK and, to intedict the sea lanes, decides to make some sort of "one off" statement to the US. As a prelude to turning the Heer and Luftwaffe back onto Britain, a surprise attack on the US in some form (not necessarily a naval or even a military target) would be intended to disrupt US naval dispositions, allocations to lend lease, Atlantic shipping and domestic politics*. The US might even decide that the game is not worth the candle and pull back & leave Britain to fend for itself.

*An attack like this could even be concived earlier, as a way to influence the 1940 elections. Would FDR have achieved his unprecedented third term?
 
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