WI Native Americans reach Europe first

What would happen if Native Americans reached Europe before Europeans reached the Americas? And what changes in American history would be necessary (technology, outlook, etc) for them to sail the seas?
 
Maybe the Inuit could settle Iceland before the Norse, but even that is unlikely. Beyond that, I'd say its nearly impossible...
 
First change: an avanced and seafaring civilization should develop in the OTL US Eastern seaboard or Quebec / Ontario....other regions are unfavorable to the contact with Europe (Caribbean islands too small to support a civilization with ocean-crossing skills, Eastern South America too far and Pacific Coast :p)
 
First change: an avanced and seafaring civilization should develop in the OTL US Eastern seaboard or Quebec / Ontario....other regions are unfavorable to the contact with Europe (Caribbean islands too small to support a civilization with ocean-crossing skills, Eastern South America too far and Pacific Coast :p)

Maybe the Iroquois tribes coalesce several hundred years earlier, come to dominate the Eastern seaboard, and adapt their war canoes to coastal travel. Then, due to butterflies, seal skins become a prized commodity for the Iroquois elite. Iroquois merchants begin to range as far north as Greenland and come into contact with Norse ships. An intrepid Iroquois explorer, based on the legends of his Inuit guide, sail to the 'Eastern Land of the Rising Sun' and discover Iceland?
 
Maybe the Iroquois tribes coalesce several hundred years earlier, come to dominate the Eastern seaboard, and adapt their war canoes to coastal travel. Then, due to butterflies, seal skins become a prized commodity for the Iroquois elite. Iroquois merchants begin to range as far north as Greenland and come into contact with Norse ships. An intrepid Iroquois explorer, based on the legends of his Inuit guide, sail to the 'Eastern Land of the Rising Sun' and discover Iceland?
You don't necessarily need Iroquois, they weren't the only tribal confederacy. The New Englanders, the Wabanaki Confederacy, formed as a reaction to them. Perhaps they could be the ones to reach Europe. Or better yet, the Dorset People, the Tuniit, better resist Inuit depredations and adopt bows, become a bit more advanced, and as more Inuit come they migrate further east, expanding into Greenland and reaching Iceland in their sea-voyages.
 
An arrival of some Native American explorers or traders in a fringe Greenlandic or Icelandic beach would not be something so impactant like OTL Columbus arriving with ships and crew in 1492.....

To recreate something like impactant like Columbus the Natives need to arrive in a more populated part of Europe, like the British Islands or Portugal / Spain.....to achieve that, the Natives would need to follow the Gulf Stream current or manage to navigate between Bermuda - Azores - Portugal.....imagine the impact of four to five Iroquois ships arriving in 14th. century Portugal :D
 
There was low-level contact between North America and Siberia in OTL, but maybe these could be intensified somehow...

Well, the Haida hunted wales, which suggests the beginings of an active sea-going culture. Maybe they are left alone long enough to make the leap to ocean-going ships? Imagine the impact of a Haida fleet dropping anchor in Tokyo Bay. :D:cool::eek:
 
Well, the Haida hunted wales, which suggests the beginings of an active sea-going culture. Maybe they are left alone long enough to make the leap to ocean-going ships? Imagine the impact of a Haida fleet dropping anchor in Tokyo Bay. :D:cool::eek:
Aren't the Tlingit actually closer to Asia? You know, being in Alaska and all?
 
Well, the Haida hunted wales, which suggests the beginings of an active sea-going culture. Maybe they are left alone long enough to make the leap to ocean-going ships? Imagine the impact of a Haida fleet dropping anchor in Tokyo Bay. :D:cool::eek:

IMHO the impact would be much greater if the Iroquois arrived in Lisbon....the Japanese had the Ainu people and they could think that the Haida were somewhat similar to the Ainu or other farflung Siberian people......instead, Europe never saw something like the Iroquois or other Native American tribe.
 

amphibulous

Banned
Also: if the Indians haven't had a hugely differently shuffle in the population of domesticable species and developed urbanization, when they get to Europe they die. (These were things that led to a greater variety and potency of European diseases.)

In fact maybe they die anyway because they're still immune to smallpox and flu - they just contribute lethal germs of their own to Europe.
 

amphibulous

Banned
IMHO the impact would be much greater if the Iroquois arrived in Lisbon....the Japanese had the Ainu people and they could think that the Haida were somewhat similar to the Ainu or other farflung Siberian people......instead, Europe never saw something like the Iroquois or other Native American tribe.

How you define "like"? Europe has seen Arabs, Sami, even a few Africans.
 
How you define "like"? Europe has seen Arabs, Sami, even a few Africans.

Their appearance itself probably wouldn't be anything too shocking - certainly not as much as an African or Asiatic. I think the main issue would be the sudden appearance of exotic looking people from an unknown, exotic sounding mystery (is)land to the far west. And of course, once it was shown that they were not Christians, and they began to die of rapidly,..would be fun how the Europeans would rationalize and comprehend the whole drama, and how it would affect (if at all) European colonization of the Americas.
 
didn't most seafaring cultures develop because of lack of land resources? why would the continental Indian cultures need or want to go to sea?
 
didn't most seafaring cultures develop because of lack of land resources? why would the continental Indian cultures need or want to go to sea?
Yeah, that kinda makes the Pacific Northwest people much less likely to go far. And that's also why I posited the idea of Tuniit being the ones to do it.
 
didn't most seafaring cultures develop because of lack of land resources? why would the continental Indian cultures need or want to go to sea?

Continental America has a lot of advantages that could be gained from a seafaring culture and even more of an advantage for this on the islands. As a few examples the modern US coast has a huge amount of fish, it has many natural harbors that are perfectly suited for trade, in fact its a bit surprising that the natives didnt develop a seafaring culture.
 
Continental America has a lot of advantages that could be gained from a seafaring culture and even more of an advantage for this on the islands. As a few examples the modern US coast has a huge amount of fish, it has many natural harbors that are perfectly suited for trade, in fact its a bit surprising that the natives didnt develop a seafaring culture.

Some did. I think that their was probably enough food to be gained on land through hunting/gathering or agriculture meant that large scale sea faring ability was never developped.
 
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