WI Native Americans Helped the Nazis?

[Khanzeer]

It's still genocide. Pre colonization, North America alone was home to between 10 and 50 million Native Americans. By 1890, as noted up thread, there were less than 300,000 left. No matter which starting figure you use, that's a minimum of 97% killed. Even today, there are only 5.2 million people in the US who identify as Native American. So that's still a loss of population of between 50 and 90 percent. Just because it was carried out over a longer time frame doesn't mean it wasn't a genocide

British let millions of indians die Deliberately when they were in total incharge of the govt from 1780s to 1943 from famine
So much so as withholding food to starving people now that fits the definition of genocide
Or what Turks did to Armenians

 

[YYJ]

I think this thread is a set up for Victim Olympics. Let's pull the plug before someone gets banned.

 

[Emperor Norton I]

This is obviously from the folks that brought you the Zimmerman Telegram.

 

[HARRY]

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2522919.Operation_Shatterhand There was this book from 1996 that followed the plot of German armed forces coming across the border from mexico to attack the Los Alamos facility in New Mexico & thinking they would be able to incite the Apache, Navajo and yes spoiler alert it did work out well for them. The name Shatterhand & the believe that the native Americans would welcome them was because of a series of popular pulp western novels by a German writer Karl May about Old Shatterhand which he claimed was the name the Apaches had given him and his blood brother & chief Winnetou.

 

[CalBear]

Ok let's not compare DELIBERATE starvation of 2 million Slavic POWs in 1-2 yrs [ what nazis did] + 6 Mil Holocaust of jews + 6 ? M slav civilians etc
With the loss of native north American population from VARIOUS MULITIPLE CAUSES over 200 + yrs.And lets not forget natives allied with various enemies of USA at many times and their reprisals against European settlers were at many times shockingly barbaric.

No, let's call it what it was, Ethnic Cleansing, i.e. a crime Against Humanity. I'd suggest you delve more deeply into the history of White settlers across North America, but I doubt it would matter.

Defending Crimes Against Humanity is indefensible.

To Coventry with you.

 

[David T]

I think that most members of racial minorities in the US took Joe Louis' position: "There's a lot wrong with this country, but Hitler can't fix it." https://books.google.com/books?id=8RPgI6EhRvwC&pg=PA746

 

[Merrow]

To be kind of back on topic, there is another way in which assistance could have been rendered. IIRC in WW2 Native American languages were being used as the basis of top secret codes. Simple interpretation skills would likely be a way that they could have been incredibly useful to the Nazi's.

 

[SsgtC]

To be kind of back on topic, there is another way in which assistance could have been rendered. IIRC in WW2 Native American languages were being used as the basis of top secret codes. Simple interpretation skills would likely be a way that they could have been incredibly useful to the Nazi's.

The Navajo code talkers weren't used in Europe. They were strictly used in the Pacific with the Marines

 

[Merrow]

The Navajo code talkers weren't used in Europe. They were strictly used in the Pacific with the Marines

Yes, I got confused with WW1 when Chocktaw and Cherokee languages were used when serving in France. Thanks for the correction

 

[Kerney]

Hardly.
the 1860 census recorded 339,421 Native Americans. After the Plains wars, in 1880, it was 306,543, with a number of Tribal members off to Canada to a low of 248,000 in 1890, and increased since.
No that was nowhere like what happened to Paraguay in the Triple-Alliance War

Uhh, The estimates in 1491 was between 54 and 110 million, and probably closer to the higher number. If you go conservative and put 15 million in the US/Canada, say 90% give or take died from smallpox etc not used as weapon of war, that's still 1.2 million dead, which isn't good.

 

[Kerney]

The Navajo code talkers weren't used in Europe. They were strictly used in the Pacific with the Marines

That is because the German anthropologists had collected the largest NA language archive in the world.

 

[marathag]

Uhh, The estimates in 1491 was between 54 and 110 million, and probably closer to the higher number. If you go conservative and put 15 million in the US/Canada, say 90% give or take died from smallpox etc not used as weapon of war, that's still 1.2 million dead, which isn't good.

And USA would not exist for several hundred years when the diseases were first introduced, and the Smallpox Blanket was a British North America/Canadian thing in any case.
Should take note on the difference between what in now called ethnic cleansing and actual genocide for what went on North of the Rio Grande from the time the 13 Colonies were established.

 

[Father Maryland]

If any tribe was insane enough to try? Low level intelligence most likely. There weren't very many Native Americans in critical fields or jobs.

That's generally the problem with most of the various proposals for the Axis to use disaffected American minorities during or before WW2. Namely that by and large most minorities were already treated with suspicion, members rarely had positions of power, and were poorly trusted at best. Spies are best when they're able to blend in and be trusted. The only possible exception would be sources that can be present when high value information is relayed but the relayers literally won't notice their there (think black maids). Hence most Axis spies and agents in the US during the war were white as Mayo.

 

[Garrison]

"We were genocided by insane white Europeans. Let's help insane white Europeans genocide someone else." I don't think that will go over well in many Tribal Councils.

Especially as Hitler sometimes invoked the American drive to the West as a template for his plans for Lebensraum in the USSR. It was an analogy hardly likely to endear the Nazi's to the Native American population.

ETA: Hitler was apparently a big fan of those Karl May Western's HARRY mentioned.

 

[Kaze]

Option 1.

The closest you might get is some minor sabotage, but nothing that will impact the US war effort.

Option 2.

Natives turn the Nazis over to the FBI for cash, decreasing some of their the poverty

 

[martymcfly]

This might have been an OK idea if Hitler was alive and fighting the US in the 18th century.

In 1941-45? A non-starter.

 

[Polish Eagle]

Especially as Hitler sometimes invoked the American drive to the West as a template for his plans for Lebensraum in the USSR. It was an analogy hardly likely to endear the Nazi's to the Native American population.

ETA: Hitler was apparently a big fan of those Karl May Western's HARRY mentioned.

For the sake of upholding Karl May’s reputation, I must point out that the Winnetou stories frequently center on moral chastisement of white settlers for stealing Indian land and killing Indians to steal their gold. Hitler might have been a big fan, but he drew the exact opposite of the moral lesson May was trying to preach.

 

[Talus I of Dixie]

if Hitler was alive and fighting the US in the 18th century.

Why no one thought about make an ASB TL about this before?

 

[Emperor Norton I]

Why no one thought about make an ASB TL about this before?

It's like "Dances With Wolves" mixed with a lot more horrid racism.

 

[Changundramon]

Get some Navajos to side with Japan, and American code security is in trouble.