WI: Native Americans discover Antarctica
- Thread starter Ellie
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At best it might become some mythical land where the bravest of the brave (or complete fools) go there for hunting and adventure, if even that. Not much to really draw people there, unless a large enough population, for some reason, became stranded there and survived. They'd be some hard mofos though.
They'd need some massive boost in ship tech to do that.
Permanent settlement is pretty damn hard, although parts of the Peninsula could probably support a Inuit-like lifelistyle, just barely. And the immigrants would lack the starting toolkit I suppose.
Hunting? Hunting what? Emperor Penguins? Puffins? The only reason to go there I could possibly imagine would be religious. Though some islands and parts of the Peninsula could support some Inuit-esque culture (not a Tsalal one probablyAt best it might become some mythical land where the bravest of the brave (or complete fools) go there for hunting and adventure, if even that. Not much to really draw people there, unless a large enough population, for some reason, became stranded there and survived. They'd be some hard mofos though.
)The Onas from Tierra del Fuego did have a maritime culture, and could have reached Antartica, if they were daring enough. If they settled in the Malv... I mean Falklands (sorry, force of habit ) and then "island hopped" to the Georgias and Sandwich Is. they could maybe have a few stranded explorers in Antartica.
Of course, it would amount to just that. Conditions in Antartica are harsher than those faced by the Inuit. And since the Onas had a small population to begin with, I doubt this discovery will have much of an impact apart from some legends.
) and then "island hopped" to the Georgias and Sandwich Is. they could maybe have a few stranded explorers in Antartica.Of course, it would amount to just that. Conditions in Antartica are harsher than those faced by the Inuit. And since the Onas had a small population to begin with, I doubt this discovery will have much of an impact apart from some legends.
Puffins are arctic, not Antarctic. But yeah, you could hunt penguins and seals. Animals that they can't find in South America would be valuable and worthy of prestige, such as the leopard seal. A hunter who ventured all the way to Antarctica and not only survived the harshest environment on earth but brought back the pelt of the fiercest creature there would be considered a strong and valiant man indeed.Hunting? Hunting what? Emperor Penguins? Puffins? The only reason to go there I could possibly imagine would be religious. Though some islands and parts of the Peninsula could support some Inuit-esque culture (not a Tsalal one probably
I hate to break the argument, but it's like circumnavigation- some people do it, it's very brave but it never meant everybody would start circumnavigating. there would've been an increased number of people going to Antarctica, however.
Or possibly a suicidal nutter?
Seriously though if stories of the land of Ice to the south spread throughout South America, even as myths then the Spanish may get to hear about them. That could lead to the discovery of Antarctica by Europeans somewhat earlier on. One major butterfly there would be to kill the Terra Australis myth far more quickly than in OTL, once it becomes obvious that all that lies south is a death land around the pole. This might lead to OTL Australia getting a different name since it will be clear it is not the mythical land, instead that name probably gets Grandfathered for the real one around the pole (even if it's nothing like the mythical one).
Probably a few expeditions go further south than OTL to look into the myth, alot of them die (since 16th century ships are not built to handle those kind of conditions), a few ships come back and Antarctica is written off by everyone until the expeditions of the twentieth century. It is after all the one place on earth that's completely useless to anyone since even the upper reaches of the peninsular, is on the borderline of habitability without twentieth century technology. You might see a few visitors to the peninsular in the summer months, but it's unlikely you'll see any body pushing further south, and any colony attempt is going to end up a pile of corpses in short order.
Sure they did. But it takes a hell of a maritime culture to face those sort of seas on a regular basis. They are are among the stormiest in the world I hear.
IOTL they may have reached the Falklands/Malvinas/whatever and perhaps even further but never settled there as far as we know, or if they ever did, they were not able to maintain those settlements.
I still hold that a more advanced maritime tech is required for them to settle, or to keep the settlements. That could be the POD, although I don't know how to get to it.
Maybe something that forces them to put more resources on whaling?
The problem is that those seas are dangerous and what lies beyond them is a very harsh enviroment (they probably can do fine on the Falklands with an appropriate toolkit, not sure about further islands though). So not much in the way of pull factors. You may need some push factor.
It's not ASB but quite a though call.
If we take the northernmost part of Antarctic peninsula, there's also this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deschampsia_antarctica
my bad, I was just suddenly caught up in the circumnavigation analogy and had to write it down.
There are a few challenges with this that needs to be adressed:
1) The Antarctic circumpolar current is very fast and very strong. If you set out from Tierra de Fuego, you will be pulled a considerable distance eastwards before you land in Antarctica. To actuallly hit the peninsula, you'll need to know what you're doing, and have the backing of some good maritime tech. Same problem going back.
2) These waters are among the most dangerous in the world. Storms, icebergs going fast in that current, icy seas and winds. European sailors had a saying: “Below 50 degrees south there is no law; below 60 degrees south there is no God."
3) Unlike the north, there is no approach where you can slowly push polewards over generations while sharpening your environmental coping skills. The climate jump from Tierra del Fuego to Antarctic is huge.
So I can see a few lost mariners landing there, but to come back or surviving there...iffy in the extreme.
1) The Antarctic circumpolar current is very fast and very strong. If you set out from Tierra de Fuego, you will be pulled a considerable distance eastwards before you land in Antarctica. To actuallly hit the peninsula, you'll need to know what you're doing, and have the backing of some good maritime tech. Same problem going back.
2) These waters are among the most dangerous in the world. Storms, icebergs going fast in that current, icy seas and winds. European sailors had a saying: “Below 50 degrees south there is no law; below 60 degrees south there is no God."
3) Unlike the north, there is no approach where you can slowly push polewards over generations while sharpening your environmental coping skills. The climate jump from Tierra del Fuego to Antarctic is huge.
So I can see a few lost mariners landing there, but to come back or surviving there...iffy in the extreme.
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Dorozhand
Banned
Could going from the Falklands to South Georgia to the Scotia Plate islands and then to Antarctica over many generations work to create long-term experience in a gradual manner? The current would take them at least to South Georgia. After that it's a matter of island hopping, adventurous souls pushing the envelope and following the breadcrumbs until they get to the mainland.
Once they get there, the Yaghan especially would be able to adapt to an Inuit like lifestyle, especially if they became, as is necessary, a seafaring fishing people. They know how to shield themselves from the cold, and how to build shelters. The use of blubber for insulation, or even for fire fuel, would be a natural step from there.
Just like the Inuit, they could live almost exclusively off of meat in the form of fish, seal, penguin, et al; skills they would have learned from living on the South Sandwich islands.
Also, has anyone thought about them travelling with the circumpolar current, smacking oblique into Queen Maud Land from the northwest? Does anyone have a snowball's chance of surviving there?
It is awfully close to the Mountains of Madness, though. Maybe they could tame the Shoggoths or something.
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as a point of interest concerning this, iirc, there's a theory that the Falkland fox wasn't actually native to the Falklands (or rather, it's ancestors weren't) and that it was introduced to the islands by ancient settlers who died out long before the Europeans arrived, leaving their pet warrahs behindThe Onas from Tierra del Fuego did have a maritime culture, and could have reached Antartica, if they were daring enough. If they settled in the Malv... I mean Falklands (sorry, force of habit
Of course, it would amount to just that. Conditions in Antartica are harsher than those faced by the Inuit. And since the Onas had a small population to begin with, I doubt this discovery will have much of an impact apart from some legends.
If you dont mind me joining: I think the Onas are a good starting point bt you need to have a POD giving them an incencitive to go down south. From the top of my head I can see only one: Whales.
Let have one grey whale be found on a beach by some Onas, they find the amount of food in it wonderfull and some use for many part of the whale (even bones for religious ceremony let say). That will make them be more and more turned to the sea, they will follow their migrations and eventually end up in their reproduction area: just in front of the antartic peninsula. After that you only need to have them establish some permanent hunting camps and play around from that point.
Let have one grey whale be found on a beach by some Onas, they find the amount of food in it wonderfull and some use for many part of the whale (even bones for religious ceremony let say
). That will make them be more and more turned to the sea, they will follow their migrations and eventually end up in their reproduction area: just in front of the antartic peninsula. After that you only need to have them establish some permanent hunting camps and play around from that point.As others have said, the Antarctic Peninsula is perfectly habitable by say Inuit standards.
I don't think that food would initially be a huge problem. Penguins will walk right up to people and tug on their shoelaces, and the seals and seabirds around there are not used to natural predators either. After a few generations, when the native life has either been decimated or learned natural fear however, you'd need some serious marine skills to keep going.
Much more difficult is shelter. I mean, the Yaghans were badasses who lived naked in a subpolar climate, but I don't think even their weird metabolism would be enough for life in the Antarctic. They'd need to develop some sort of penguin-skin clothing, which would probably require development of sewing. They'd need better shelters as well. I just don't think they had the items in their cultural toolkit to make these inventions quickly. Could they even start fires? I dunno if there were any flint deposits, and they surely did not have a lot of kindling, although some sort of oil-lamp should be possible.
I don't think that food would initially be a huge problem. Penguins will walk right up to people and tug on their shoelaces, and the seals and seabirds around there are not used to natural predators either. After a few generations, when the native life has either been decimated or learned natural fear however, you'd need some serious marine skills to keep going.
Much more difficult is shelter. I mean, the Yaghans were badasses who lived naked in a subpolar climate, but I don't think even their weird metabolism would be enough for life in the Antarctic. They'd need to develop some sort of penguin-skin clothing, which would probably require development of sewing. They'd need better shelters as well. I just don't think they had the items in their cultural toolkit to make these inventions quickly. Could they even start fires? I dunno if there were any flint deposits, and they surely did not have a lot of kindling, although some sort of oil-lamp should be possible.