WI Napoleon King of the Helenes?

[cimon]

Thank you for the interest! There are some things I could use, for example:
1 An estimation of the forces available to each faction in the Balkans
2 an estimation of the borders for each faction in the Balkans
3 Where would an adventurer land a small army? We will need time to establish a base to build strength and ensure security from a fast moving enemy!
4 Where were the trading centres in the campaign area? are they analogous to todays citys?

As I have already stated, my posts will be slow in arriving as I am self employed and my business takes up a lot of my time.

I think I will be able to help as soon as I will manage to go home;
(I wrote a full answer,but this infernal contruption-called computer didn't
accept it!)

 

[Archon of Thessaly]

i considerd writing a POD ( based on real plans cochrain harboured) to break out napoleon and have him help the wars of liberation in Latin America- leading to a ( temporery) napoelonic empire there and renewed british interest in the region.......

 

[cimon]

Thank you for the interest! There are some things I could use, for example:
1 An estimation of the forces available to each faction in the Balkans
2 an estimation of the borders for each faction in the Balkans
3 Where would an adventurer land a small army? We will need time to establish a base to build strength and ensure security from a fast moving enemy!
4 Where were the trading centres in the campaign area? are they analogous to todays citys?

As I have already stated, my posts will be slow in arriving as I am self employed and my business takes up a lot of my time.

OK Colonel,time to help:most inportant I think are points 3 and 4.

3) Mani,which is in southern Peloponnese(Peloponnesos),mountainous in its greater part,known for its towers and castles and the fierceness of its inhabitants regarding their independence;
a) Mani was self governing and only paid tribute to the Turks since 1460.
At that time it was ruled by the Mavromichalis family and the ruler at that time was Petros Mavromichalis,later to become the man to raise the revolutionary flag in Mani in March 1821.
The fortified villages of the aerea and the towers along any road access and at maximum distance of 200 metres between towers,provide maximum security of movement and excellent defence perimetres in case of attack.
b) It has four main ports:Gytheio,Aeropolis,Stupa and Kardamyli.The first two have the port city right above them,no exposed roads to a prying eye,
Stupa port is surrounded by towers,Kardamyli,equidistant between the city of Kalamata and mount Tygetus is suitable for unloading heavy equipment and personnel as well(dressed like seamen!).All ports have an early warning system,from the observation posts of mount Taygetus that control the sea at a distance over 100 miles.
c)I read an article many years ago about family Buonaparte having its origins in that region that left at the advent of the Turks,truth or not,I don't know...
4) Trade centres:Tripoli:capital of Peloponnese and seat of Turkish administration.

 

[cimon]

OK Colonel,time to help:most inportant I think are points 3 and 4.

3) Mani,which is in southern Peloponnese(Peloponnesos),mountainous in its greater part,known for its towers and castles and the fierceness of its inhabitants regarding their independence;
a) Mani was self governing and only paid tribute to the Turks since 1460.
At that time it was ruled by the Mavromichalis family and the ruler at that time was Petros Mavromichalis,later to become the man to raise the revolutionary flag in Mani in March 1821.
The fortified villages of the aerea and the towers along any road access and at maximum distance of 200 metres between towers,provide maximum security of movement and excellent defence perimetres in case of attack.
b) It has four main ports:Gytheio,Aeropolis,Stupa and Kardamyli.The first two have the port city right above them,no exposed roads to a prying eye,
Stupa port is surrounded by towers,Kardamyli,equidistant between the city of Kalamata and mount Tygetus is suitable for unloading heavy equipment and personnel as well(dressed like seamen!).All ports have an early warning system,from the observation posts of mount Taygetus that control the sea at a distance over 100 miles.
c)I read an article many years ago about family Buonaparte having its origins in that region that left at the advent of the Turks,truth or not,I don't know...
4) Trade centres:Tripoli:capital of Peloponnese and seat of Turkish administration.

Ioannina seat of Ali passa((whose sedition precipitated the Greek revolution.Kalamata(south eastern Peloponnese)
Thessaloniki in the Thermaic gulf.(not in the campaign aerea.)
The Greek islands that controlled the trade in eastern and to a great extent western Mediterranean(Napoleon knew that all too well) especially Hydra,Spetses(near Mani) and Psara that in five years OTL they provided the navy of the revolution(see the Turkish history school book at pp 237-241).
1) I assume you mean the Turks and the Greeks;nothing is certain,but a site "OnWar"gives 400000 Turks(probably campaign totals) and 100000 Greeks but I consider that totally unreliable since for the Turks it gives population 23000000(probably true) and for the Greeks 2500000 totally false since the liberated state of Greece in 1830 numbered 800000 inhabitants(not including about 200000-very conservative estimate- civilians slaughtered by Turks and Egyptians)

 

[Colonel Troutstrangler]

Ioannina seat of Ali passa((whose sedition precipitated the Greek revolution.Kalamata(south eastern Peloponnese)
Thessaloniki in the Thermaic gulf.(not in the campaign aerea.)
The Greek islands that controlled the trade in eastern and to a great extent western Mediterranean(Napoleon knew that all too well) especially Hydra,Spetses(near Mani) and Psara that in five years OTL they provided the navy of the revolution(see the Turkish history school book at pp 237-241).
1) I assume you mean the Turks and the Greeks;nothing is certain,but a site "OnWar"gives 400000 Turks(probably campaign totals) and 100000 Greeks but I consider that totally unreliable since for the Turks it gives population 23000000(probably true) and for the Greeks 2500000 totally false since the liberated state of Greece in 1830 numbered 800000 inhabitants(not including about 200000-very conservative estimate- civilians slaughtered by Turks and Egyptians)

Kin ell ! Thank you very much! I have a series of history books published at the time, and will be able to give a "flavour" of the English view point. (Alisons "History of Europe 1815 to 1852") I have quite a bit to prepare so I will get my thinking cap on!

 

[cimon]

Colonel,

I am glad you received the message:some very important information:
Persons that could help Napoleon:
From island of Spetses:Lascarina Bouboulina,(widow of late captain Bouboulis) an extremely rich business-and-fighting- woman;first to raise the revolutionary flag in Spetses(1821);entered the revolution with 8 war ships(7 converted) she was awarded the rank of full admiral of the fleet by Ioannis Kapodistrias,first president of independent Greece,a document which I saw as an exibit in her house(now museum) on the island which I am usually visiting for vacation.

Pavlos Kountouriotis:island of Hydra:the first man of the island,head of the
revolutionary Gov. for a time.

The above two persons could help mask the transfer of ships and men to Mani.

Andreas Miaoulis:island of Hydra:the undefeated chief admiral of the revolutionary fleet.

Later:Theodoros Kolokotronis(commander in chief of the irregulars of the Revolution-at present(1816) serving in the second Greek regiment of the British army at Corfu with the rank of major.

Certainly with a representative of the Friendly Society(Filiki Etaireia) based in Odessa;it had members in all Peloponnese,the most prominent at the time being a priest(and a fighting one) Gregorios(Gregory) Dikaios called Papaflessas.

Any help you want,I have the history and geography of the region at my fingertips and a lot more,(including the revolution and its aftermath);although my total bookcases content is not with me,I can supply the relevant information backed by sources.Ask what you wish,freely.

 

[Colonel Troutstrangler]

Thank yo Cimon, I will most certainly call on you for help!

 

[cimon]

I think that Pasha would not be happy if this TL's a success... Snag is, it'd be a complete demolition job of the Ottoman Empire.

FYI, the Russians supported Capodistrias (a dictatorial figure) against the desires of France and England over the Battle of Poros. Da Capo's half-trained Greek army (trained in the French manner) sacked the town whilst the Russians attacked by sea. You have to be a Poriote, Hydran or Spetsean, to understand why Admiral Miaoulis is a hero for burning half the most potent ships of the Greek Navy in Poros harbour. Me, I'm in training for a philHellene.

Despite his remarks about the massacres of Muslims in the Morea, I would like to remind our Ottoman friend of the massacres of Greeks in the Morea and the planned resettlement with Algerian Muslims. This was only stopped by the Battle of Navarino Bay. I respectfully suggest that neither side had clean hands but that events such as the massacre at Chios should be examined.

Coming back to the TL, Napoleon would probably have been acceptable to Russia and France - as long as he fought in and for Greece. Britain would never have trusted him and historically might not have granted the two loans that funded Greek independence (and were mostly wasted by people such as Kapodistrias). So, carry on.

In other words,the men and materials Lord Cochrane brings is a considerably more substantial help from those two loans,plus the organization and training of substantial numbers of Greeks;the real power behind Napoleon,would be the navy of the the three leading islands plus some others and that never needed any help in the form of money,at least for the first five years, to defeat the Turkish navy repeatedly,or the Turkish,Egyptian and Agerian navies combined(sea battle of Gerontas).

 

[cimon]

I think...dear colonel tried to start a Thread without proper preparation;before the incident of the ships sailing under Cochrane from New York,certain information is necessary that in the absence of it some questions
arise;Cochrane wanted landing in Greece;would he arrive there just like that?
none was to know about it? how would the locals face the situation? who would help the unloading of the ships and procure the animals required to transport the materials to their alocated depos? what precautions had to be taken to ensure secrecy?where would napoleon stay and what of his entarage in St.Helena?would they all follow in Greece? a lot of preparation was needed and secrecy required and all these things had to precede the sailing of the ships from New York and elsewhere.

 

[cimon]

i considerd writing a POD ( based on real plans cochrain harboured) to break out napoleon and have him help the wars of liberation in Latin America- leading to a ( temporery) napoelonic empire there and renewed british interest in the region.......

I am thinking of putting the past and future actions in point form so that someone can develop it as a TL.I feel to much a European to be interested in what happened in Mexico;here in Europe,where in early nineteenth century is the centre of world events,such TL is more thrilling,it can influence history...