WI: Napoleon II is accepted as Emperor?

So when the Allies were invading France in 1814 Napoleon tried to abdicate in favor of his son, the three-year-old King of Rome, with his wife Empress Marie Louise as Regent. This was of course rejected by the allies. Later, during the hundred days Napoleon again attempted to abdicate in favor of his son. Though this was closer to being accepted it too was rejected. So what if one of these attempts were accepted and the King of Rome became Emperor of the French with Marie Louise as Regent? How would French history go with no Bourbon Restoration and July Monarchy? Would France be considered a pariah state or be accepted among Europe? Would France accept the new Concert of Europe or would the Empire attempt to reignite its Imperial past?
 
So when the Allies were invading France in 1814 Napoleon tried to abdicate in favor of his son, the three-year-old King of Rome, with his wife Empress Marie Louise as Regent. This was of course rejected by the allies. Later, during the hundred days Napoleon again attempted to abdicate in favor of his son. Though this was closer to being accepted it too was rejected. So what if one of these attempts were accepted and the King of Rome became Emperor of the French with Marie Louise as Regent? How would French history go with no Bourbon Restoration and July Monarchy? Would France be considered a pariah state or be accepted among Europe? Would France accept the new Concert of Europe or would the Empire attempt to reignite its Imperial past?

If they accept it the first time (which I think would require an earlier abdication), it probably gets undone a year later when Napoleon gets bored and leaves Elba.
 
If they accept it the first time (which I think would require an earlier abdication), it probably gets undone a year later when Napoleon gets bored and leaves Elba.

I don't think Napoleon would leave Elba if his son is Emperor. Why risk the future of his dynasty. And Napoleon didn't leave Elba because he was bored, it had more to do with the rumors that the Vienna congress was planning on removing him to St. Helena.
 
I think the Allies would most likly accept it if France gave up everything they won and returned to prewar borders (minus colonies ofc)...which i dont see Nappy doing no matter the reward
 
I think the Allies would most likly accept it if France gave up everything they won and returned to prewar borders (minus colonies ofc)...which i dont see Nappy doing no matter the reward

So what if Napoleon dies in Russia? Would the Austrians prop up Nappy II under a regency under Marie-Lousie? It could be highly convenient for them.

France could probably keep some good chunks it won in this scenario.
 
I think the Allies would most likly accept it if France gave up everything they won and returned to prewar borders (minus colonies ofc)...which i dont see Nappy doing no matter the reward

Well Napoleon wouldn't matter, its his son on the throne. And I think the best time for Napoleon II to be accepted would be after the Hundred days. It sounds odd I know but after Napoleon was defeated a lot of the allies didn't want to restore the Bourbons, thinking them to unpopular. Tsar Alexander wanted the Duc d'Orleans but I believe that Emperor Franz would prefer his grandson. So maybe the Russians and Prussians (more or less following Russia's lead) could be brought around to the idea and Britain is overridden. Napoleon II becomes Emperor of the French, with his mother as Regent.
 
Is Marie Louise a regent in name only? I don't think she was really all that political a person, she didn't hold much love for the French, came from an autocratic/conservative family: all bad traits for the ruler of France at the time.

I would guess there'd be a lot of political intrigue going on, with rival ideologies trying to influence those ruling in N2's name. Probably not conducive to progress, harmony, and prosperity. Those not getting their way would foment ill will towards the monarchy, which makes it tougher for the monarchy to rule, and raises the real possibility of a spiral towards coup or revolution. If that happens, it also ruins the magic of the Bonaparte name, so NP3 is unlikely to win any future elections. that would have consequences on a lot of stuff (Crimean War, Mexican adventure, War with Germany/unification of Germany). IF NP2 holds on, gets married, has heirs (I'm guessing living in the palace changes up his exposure to the illness that killed him OTL), that also keeps NP3 out of power. Basically, history as we know it has some major changes.
 
Marie Louise was a cipher.

The first proposal in 1814 wasn't serious. It was just the standard monarchical end game when it's all turned to custard . The French proposal was essentially "we keep all our conquests, everything, just change the name on the coinage". Obviously unacceptable to the Allies. And what would have been acceptable to the allies would have ensured that the child was quickly deposed. Nobody except maybe Austria wanted him. The reactionaries wanted Louis. The moustaches wanted the /real/ Napoleon. The Prussians wanted to destroy France not prop it up.

The 1815 proposal, by then the child was in Austria, with his Austrian mother. No way would the other Allies agree to a child ruler who would have been an Austrian protege, if not a puppet.

If he had been 20 years older, and personable, perhaps, though I doubt it. A child, a regency, that didn't work for anyone except Austria. He had no power base.

About the only way it might be possible would be if Waterloo was a total disaster for both Britain and Prussia, and then Austria quickly won an overwhelming series of victories which totally overthrew Napoleon. (Before Russia could get on the scene and eat everyone up).

So that Austria dictated the peace. Which I think is pretty much ASB.
 
Talleyrand was able to get France incredibly lenient terms at the Congress of Vienna by claiming that Bourbon France was one of the Allies fighting against Napoleon. If a Napoleon continues to rule, all or at least most, of her colonies and recently conquered territories will be stripped away.
 
Talleyrand was able to get France incredibly lenient terms at the Congress of Vienna by claiming that Bourbon France was one of the Allies fighting against Napoleon. If a Napoleon continues to rule, all or at least most, of her colonies and recently conquered territories will be stripped away.


I think it depends. Napoleon II was the most "royal" of the Bonapartes. He was the only one with any relation to a major reigning Dynasty. So if any Bonaparte is gonna be accepted its gonna be him. And really the only thing France kept after the Hundred days was its colonies. Before that they had Nice and parts of Savoy, so today's borders. So not much would change.
 
I think it depends. Napoleon II was the most "royal" of the Bonapartes. He was the only one with any relation to a major reigning Dynasty. So if any Bonaparte is gonna be accepted its gonna be him. And really the only thing France kept after the Hundred days was its colonies. Before that they had Nice and parts of Savoy, so today's borders. So not much would change.

Could Napoleon II be accepted? Sure. But he'd still be a Napoleon, and ruler of the defeated country. France went into the CoV as a defeated country whose fate was to be decided - and Talleyrand weaseled his way onto the victor's side by claiming that Bourbon France was one of the allied powers fighting against Napoleonic France. Napoleon (II) could not possibly make that claim.
 
Napoleon II was about four years old, so he's not making any claims. The big question is who would make claims on his behalf, and how much on his behalf would those claims be.
 
I don't see any way for France to keep any of their conquests. The only country who would be willing to actively campaign for Napoleon II would be Austria since the little tyke will be under the control of Mommy Dearest, and they will still want to strip France of their Conquests.
 
very few actually wanted a punitive peace. I don't think France would ever get to keep the spoils (unless they won the war), but they also weren't going to raked over the coals at the peace table. Talleyrand did play the game quite well,but overall most of his work was already done for him with everyone recognizing that a punitive peace was counterproductive. They could have made out even better except for the 100 day thing, and the powers were practically forced to make terms a little harsher.
There are a lot of reasons why Nap II wasn't going to happen, but that's a separate issue than the spoils.
 
What if he doesn't die young and surplants Nappy III in history thus being accepted as Emperor just later?
 
What if he doesn't die young and surplants Nappy III in history thus being accepted as Emperor just later?

I was actually thinking of that just recently! In 1848 Napoleon II would have been 37, so looking at the length of his Habsburg relatives lives (his uncle Ferdinand was 82 and first cousin Franz-Joseph was 86) he could reasonably reign until the 1880s or even 1890s. So a potential reign of 30 plus years could do a world of good stability wise for France. I wonder if he would be single or not in 1848? Considering he was half-Habsburg he might marry a distant cousin before he ascends. But at the same time he would have spent his entire life in Austria, so Napoleon II could be considered to foreign. On the other hand, he was very much aware of his heritage, so maybe it would be something like a Monarch returning to save the country. And I think Napoleon II would have been more accepted in France bloodwise, being Napoleon's son rather then nephew.
 
If NII is accepted as Emperor of the French, he will be raised in Paris, not in any foreign countries. He may have a lot of austrian tutors and Nanny, but it will be in Paris.

If that is the case, France is likely to be cut back to the Rhine alps and Pyrenees borders (Metternich proposal to NI in 1813). Holland is under Orange (Alexander liked him) and gets the Rhinelands instead of Prussia (to be a plausible counter to France). Poland is cut in 3 between Autria, Prussia and Russia. AUstria likely gets Northern Italy and Prussia some more lands in Germany at the expense of Saxony, possibly annexing the whole kingdom.
 
If NII is accepted as Emperor of the French, he will be raised in Paris, not in any foreign countries. He may have a lot of austrian tutors and Nanny, but it will be in Paris.

If that is the case, France is likely to be cut back to the Rhine alps and Pyrenees borders (Metternich proposal to NI in 1813). Holland is under Orange (Alexander liked him) and gets the Rhinelands instead of Prussia (to be a plausible counter to France). Poland is cut in 3 between Autria, Prussia and Russia. AUstria likely gets Northern Italy and Prussia some more lands in Germany at the expense of Saxony, possibly annexing the whole kingdom.

OK realistically the best France could have hoped for was the OTl 1814 treaty of Paris. It was VERY generous, allowing France to keep its 1792 borders, several gained colonies, ALL of the artworks stolen during the Revolutionary and Napoleonic wars, had to pay no reparations and had no foreign occupation. That is really the most generous treaty ever settled upon a defeated nation.

No chance that the Rhineland would go to the Netherlands WHATSOEVER. It would either still go to Prussia, to bring Prussia to the promised 10 million population (the population before Napoleon started carving up parts of Prussia), or potentially various Rhineland states (no clue who the Vienna congress originally considered giving the Rhineland to besides Prussia). Belgium would go to the Netherlands and Poland and Saxony would probably have the same fates as OTL. Really as long as Napoleon stays in Elba France is good.
 
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