WI: Napoleon escaped to the United States

I have noticed that alot of brits and americans think the Americans lost or barely won the war of 1812. The worst we did in that war was draw. We got everything we wanted, destroyed a british ally, won more of the naval fights, and humiliated them at New Orleans. Not to mention that their army that burned washington met with some punishment of divine nature.
I think if Napoleon escapes to America he does not try to seize power, is welcomed as a hero, and lives out his days in comfort with celebrity and well wishes. The coalition may not like it, the brits may not like it but there isn't anything they can do. There would be no massive invasion force of prussians, brits, russians, austrians, dutch, swedes, spaniards, portuguese... The costs, organization, negotiations for this would be on a scale that would just not be possible. I don't really think the coalition members would even be of one mind to do this.
The brits would be the most likely to try something but they had just tied or lost a war with the americans where all of the advantages were on their side. Too much is made of them being tied down in europe. They barely even fought in those wars. they had some men in spain making a nuisance and hiding behind guerillas, and they had 30,000 men at waterloo. There were no brits in russia, at austerlitz, wagram, leipzig, eylau...
 
Would he even be welcomed in the country, with his habit of taking power and all? Even if they do and he behaves himself, what is a former Emperor of France going to do in backwater America? Life on the frontier is better than on St. Helena but not by a whole lot. I can't picture Napoleon trading in his trademark hat and jacket for a 'coon skin cap and a coat made from bison hide. Though it would make for a fascinating painting.

I would assume that most Americans would not know what he looked like. If he used a fake name he could probably get around pretty easily. What he'd end up doing in America is harder to say.
 
I would assume that most Americans would not know what he looked like. If he used a fake name he could probably get around pretty easily. What he'd end up doing in America is harder to say.

I'd like to say Napoleon Boneparte: Gunslinger... but that would be a few decades too soon.
 
I have noticed that alot of brits and americans think the Americans lost or barely won the war of 1812. The worst we did in that war was draw. We got everything we wanted, destroyed a british ally, won more of the naval fights, and humiliated them at New Orleans. Not to mention that their army that burned washington met with some punishment of divine nature.

Alright let's get this out of the way. Horse and shit the US won the war, at best they tied the damn thing. At sea they lost decisively (Navy driven to port, merchant marine driven from the seas/forced to re-flag, those single ship actions did nothing to alter that outcome). On land the best they did was maintain territorial integrity while failing every single offensive action they took and also failing to protect Maine or Washington from invasion.

Britain OTOH securely held her North American territories, repulsed every single attempt at invading their territory, drove the US from Michigan and Wisconsin territories, occupied Maine, burnt Washington (that the occupation only ended after what could be called an act of God tells you something) and contested the Great Lakes the entire conflict. This was with but a fraction of her strength. Had they sat on the blockade a single year longer the US would have been forced to cave. They suffered only one serious defeat on land (New Orleans, after the peace treaty had been signed, making the outcome utterly irrelevant) and despite some early embarrassments at sea (and some significant ones on the Great Lakes) never had their naval dominance seriously challenged.

So no, America did not win the War of 1812. With that addressed...

I think if Napoleon escapes to America he does not try to seize power, is welcomed as a hero, and lives out his days in comfort with celebrity and well wishes. The coalition may not like it, the brits may not like it but there isn't anything they can do. There would be no massive invasion force of prussians, brits, russians, austrians, dutch, swedes, spaniards, portuguese... The costs, organization, negotiations for this would be on a scale that would just not be possible. I don't really think the coalition members would even be of one mind to do this.

Firstly Napoleon would not be welcomed as a hero. He would be seen as a viper in the reeds and the US government would try and get rid of him as quickly as possible. His reputation for toppling governments is well known, and Napoleons own ego would be his own worst enemy. Add to that the pressure from the Coalition to get him back would be overwhelming. At minimum Russia, Austria, Prussia, and England would be leveling major economic pressure on the US to ensure compliance with sending him back to Europe as quickly as possible. The US government would knuckle under.

You don't need military action to accomplish this.

The brits would be the most likely to try something but they had just tied or lost a war with the americans where all of the advantages were on their side. Too much is made of them being tied down in europe. They barely even fought in those wars. they had some men in spain making a nuisance and hiding behind guerillas, and they had 30,000 men at waterloo. There were no brits in russia, at austerlitz, wagram, leipzig, eylau...

Ok you don't have a clue what you're talking about here do you?

But aside from that if it came to an unlikely military action, at minimum Prussia, Austria, and Russia would be happy to provision a few thousand troops and a couple ships to make a point about getting the Corsican back. The US populace who were deeply divided by the previous war (which in the later stages was collapsing due to lack of support despite a foreign invasion) will not be willing to fight the combined economic and military might of the Coalition and would hand over Napoleon faster than you could sneeze.

If Napoleon was smart he would be leaving the US as quickly as possible for somewhere like Mexico or Latin America.
 
Firstly Napoleon would not be welcomed as a hero. He would be seen as a viper in the reeds and the US government would try and get rid of him as quickly as possible. His reputation for toppling governments is well known, and Napoleons own ego would be his own worst enemy. Add to that the pressure from the Coalition to get him back would be overwhelming. At minimum Russia, Austria, Prussia, and England would be leveling major economic pressure on the US to ensure compliance with sending him back to Europe as quickly as possible. The US government would knuckle under.

I don't think there is much doubt that the U.S. government would not want him in the country, but whether that would lead to him actually being captured is another issue entirely. First, he could probably escape detection for a long time - it's a big country, and most people probably wouldn't know what he looked like. And then, even if he were found out, ordinary Americans might not want to turn him over. There was a lot of pro-French and anti-British sentiment in the U.S. at this time, and Napoleon had been a (nominally) elected leader who had been deposed in favor of a monarch. He could probably find sympathetic people to assist him in eluding the authorities. Of course, the big question is whether it would be a blow to his personal pride to live as an outlaw.

It really would have been fascinating if he'd made it across the Atlantic.
 
Last edited:
I don't think there is much doubt that the U.S. government would not want him in the country, but whether that would lead to him actually being captured is another issue entirely. First, he could probably escape detection for a long time - it's a big country, and most people probably wouldn't know what he looked like. And then, even if he were found out, ordinary Americans might not want to turn him over. There was a lot of pro-French and anti-British sentiment in the U.S. at this time, and Napoleon had been a (nominally) elected leader who had been deposed in favor of a monarch. He could probably find sympathetic people to assist him in eluding the authorities. Of course, the big question is whether it would be a blow to his personal pride to live as an outlaw.

It really would have been fascinating if he'd made it across the Atlantic.

Napoleons personal pride probably prevents it. I think others have elucidated enough on this thread about why that is, and he would probably relish the opportunity to rub it in the face of the Royal Navy that he had made good his escape. He wasn't the type to go into exile willingly and quietly.

No matter what the anti-British sentiment though, if the statement is made of "hand over Napoleon or else" from the powers of the Coalition, the government in Washington will have him on a boat faster than he could sneeze. No one was eager for Round 2 with Britain in light of the devastation caused by the first war, and no one is going to fight to save a deposed emperor.

My own opinion is that after a brief stay in America he journeys south to Mexico or South America to avoid just such an incident.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Certainly seems a possibility...

Does the UK's position on keeping Napoleon secure seem amenable to negotiation with Madison in some form that lets Napoleon at liberty but keeps him very firmly within the US where he cannot cause Continental problems? E.g. "We won't pursue this issue if you give your security that he won't return to Europe and pension him off as a a teacher in a Military academy or something of that ilk"

Certainly seems a possibility...again, the man was in poor health and died, presumably of natural causes, six years after Waterloo. Obviously, no one knows that in 1816 or whatever, but still - he's the definition of a broken man.

Again, it really depends on his goal - is he just trying to avoid what amounts to imprisonment? Live out his years in peace? Build some sort of Imperial Government in Exile?

If he makes it to the U.S. and does not tick off Madison and the administrations that follow, I think he's actually pretty safe. Again, how many émigrés of one ideological stripe or another had ended up in Britain or France over the years, after all?

Again, by 1815, Europe had been at war for forty years, more or less - N in America in 1816 actually serves the same purpose for the Europeans (including the British) that Jefferson Davis fleeing in 1865 would have served the US - if you catch him, what are you going to do with him? Better a live fugitive than a dead martyr, in some ways...

Best,
 
Last edited:
Some additional points in this vein, if I may:

1) In July 1815, Madison was still negotiating the repatriation of American POW's from British custody, and evacuation of British troops from occupied forts on U.S. soil pursuant to the Treaty of Ghent. Risking war with England puts all of that in peril.

2) One possible argument for Napoleon being allowed to stay in the U.S. is that his brother, Joseph (deposed King of Spain) was allowed to settle in the United States. As it was, however, Madison was less than pleased that Joseph had come to America. In the summer of 1815, Madison ordered Alexander Rush (his secretary of the Treasury) and Richard Rush (his Atty General) to "divert" Joseph Bonaparte from a possible visit to Madison's estate at Montpelier. "There is no claim of merit in that family on the American nation, nor any reason why its government should be embarrassed in any way on their account." Madison refused to be "a party to [Joseph's] concealment." He allowed Joseph into the country, but no more.

Napoleon was an entirely different matter. It was Napoleon, not Joseph, who had been the destroyer of peace in Europe for a generation. The British had made no real attempt to stop Joseph from reaching the U.S., but they spared no effort to keep Napoleon from breaking through the blockade. On 24 August James Monroe wrote a letter to Madison expressing alarm at the idea that Napoleon might attempt to reach the United States (not knowing that he was already in British custody); the next day he wrote a letter to Rush worrying that the European powers would demand his handover if Napoleon reached U.S. soil.

Based on Liverpool's letters, it's extremely hard to imagine that demand not being forthcoming.
 
I have noticed that alot of brits and americans think the Americans lost or barely won the war of 1812. The worst we did in that war was draw. We got everything we wanted, destroyed a british ally, won more of the naval fights, and humiliated them at New Orleans. Not to mention that their army that burned washington met with some punishment of divine nature.

I think any war where the enemy burns your capital to ground and turns your head of state into a fugitive is hard to score as a very favorable one.

Factor in how the British blockade wrecked much of the U.S. economy, and how much of the American Northwest was occupied by the British...

And since part of what the U.S."wanted" was control of Canada - or as much of it as we could manage - it's hard to say we achieved that, either.

Fort McHenry, Plattsburgh, Lake Erie and Horseshoe Bend were nice victories, but they had a number of serious defeats to offset. New Orleans really can't count, however much it warmed American cockles, since it came after the peace was signed. The frigate victories were nice morale boosters and great credits to U.S. naval commanders but had zero effect on the war.
 
XB247811.jpg

Close to what I had in mind.
 
Henri Guillemin keeps saying that the main motivation of Napoleon was money, money, and money. Guillemin might be a tad too much on that but still. Perhaps Napoleon could be made like Governor of a small but lucrative state faaar Inland?

Anything less than that, he'd cause trouble
 
Henri Guillemin keeps saying that the main motivation of Napoleon was money, money, and money. Guillemin might be a tad too much on that but still. Perhaps Napoleon could be made like Governor of a small but lucrative state faaar Inland?

Anything less than that, he'd cause trouble

It still wouldn't be as much money as the French Empire.

No, I think you have to execute him or put him under house arrest, if you want to have any security.
 
Top