WI: Napoleon, Emperor of France-Germany (like A-H)?

Is it possible that Napoleon could have founded a dual Franco-German monarchy between France and Germany, in a similar fashion of Austria-Hungary?
 
No unlike Hungary Germany has no desire to stay in the union. Hungary needs Austria to stay as it is. Germany has no minorities and France will not give up the Rhine border
 
No unlike Hungary Germany has no desire to stay in the union. Hungary needs Austria to stay as it is. Germany has no minorities and France will not give up the Rhine border

Obvioulsy, but I was thinking in a forced union (germany was under French control then) but similar in structure to the A-H. And the border might stay at the Rhine as well.
 
LeCHVCK's points was that Germany would have an independence revolt at the drop of a hat, and it wouldn't be one easily placated

Hungary had an vested interest in staying together with Austria for much of the unions time (mainly the fact that if not, then the Ottomans would come visiting not intending to leave)
 
Not to mention, that the other powers in Europe eg. Russia, Britain, Austria and to a less Portugal and Sweden, would be in uproar with how the balance of power had been tipped to allow France to control over Germany.
 
Not to mention, that the other powers in Europe eg. Russia, Britain, Austria and to a less Portugal and Sweden, would be in uproar with how the balance of power had been tipped to allow France to control over Germany.

To be fair, France had control over Germany, no? That was the point of the Confederation of the Rhine.
 
What about playing faction against faction? The Germans are not as unified as the French, language wise for example (at least nowadays France, thanks IIIrd Republic)

For example, Bavaria became a fully formed Kingdom. Napoleon could sort of resurrect a version of the Holy Roman Empire by getting plebiscited by new German "kings" and High Electors?

And you know, if you don't vote for me, I'll burn your territory to the ground?

Is that remotely plausible?
 
I thought Nappy was emperor of "the French" not France.He became that via plebiscite wouldn't he need to do the same for Germany?
 
I thought Nappy was emperor of "the French" not France.He became that via plebiscite wouldn't he need to do the same for Germany?

Napoleon was Emperor of the French Republic and later Emperor of France. He needs no plebiscite.
 
One on the imperial title: why not Frankish Empire or Empire of the Franks? I'm sure Napoleon would rather have L'empire des Francs to Le Franco-Empire Allemand. Also, excuse my French :D
 
Seems like an awful lot of work to rule people who don't really like you anyway. Wouldn't it be easier to just crown himself "King of the Confederation of the Rhine" or something and leave the actual ruling to someone else, the way he did with Italy?
 
Seems like an awful lot of work to rule people who don't really like you anyway. Wouldn't it be easier to just crown himself "King of the Confederation of the Rhine" or something and leave the actual ruling to someone else, the way he did with Italy?

He was already its Protector.
 
If you look at what Napoleon did with the parts of Europe he conquered thoroughly enough to do what he wanted, there was a method to it. He set up nations (or whatever the Confederation of the Rhine was supposed to be) just big enough to offer his armies military support, but not big enough to defeat France. His goal seems to have been to turn Europe into a sort of Warsaw Pact with France on top.

(This brings back memories. In my youth and innocence, I got a few chapters through writing an AH novel in which Napoleon had won and set up a Franco-Austrian Empire that covered most of Europe and had Spain, Prussia, Denmark, Naples, Italy and Greece as puppet states. And of course it was a superpower in the 20th century.)
 
Darmstadt

To be fair, France had control over Germany, no? That was the point of the Confederation of the Rhine.

But this is another reason for the Congress of Vienna and the Concert of Europe the big powers did want the others to be bigger

For example, Bavaria became a fully formed Kingdom. Napoleon could sort of resurrect a version of the Holy Roman Empire by getting plebiscited by new German "kings" and High Electors?
And you know, if you don't vote for me, I'll burn your territory to the ground?

Is that remotely plausible?



This could work, he already elevated some of the principalities or dukes to the higher title of King:
  • Have himself as a new styled Emperor of the French and the Roman Empire
  • André Masséna becoming Grand Duke and High Elector of Rhineland
  • Stattholder Christian Frederik (future King Christian VIII of Denmark) is created Grand Prince and High Elector of Schleswig-Holstein.
  • Karl Theodor von Dalberg, being Grand Prince and High Elector of Hanover.
  • Eugène de Beauharnais is kept as Grand Duke of Frankfurt
  • Louis Hesse-Darmstadt, being Grand Prince and High Elector of Hesse
 
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LeCHVCK's points was that Germany would have an independence revolt at the drop of a hat, and it wouldn't be one easily placated

Hungary had an vested interest in staying together with Austria for much of the unions time (mainly the fact that if not, then the Ottomans would come visiting not intending to leave)...

And even so there was a lot of restiveness in Hungary.

The 1500s saw a prolonged three-way conflict between the Hapsburgs, the Zapolya Princes of Transylvania, and the Ottomans for Hungary. Transylvania remained quasi-independent through the 1600s.

And not long after the Hapsburgs drove the Turks out of Hungary in 1699, there was a Hungarian national rebellion against the Hapsburgs.

Hungary also a had a much stronger tradition of national unity. Until the Tiurkish conquest in 1526, Hungary was a single sovereign state. That Kingdom of Hungary, after some pushing and shoving, survived as Hapsburg Hungary, and then was reunited with the rest after 180 years.

That gave the Hapsburgs a leg up in ruling Hungary: after 1526, they acquired 1/3 of the old kingdom and a claim to the royal title; that claim was secured around 1570, with the demise of the Zapolyas. Then when the Turks were driven out, the Hapsburg title naturally inherited the rest.

Germany had been thoroughly fragmented for several centuries, and Napoleon could not claim the Imperial title that nominally headed the HRE. His house had not ruled part of Germany for several generations, nor led wars against an external enemy of Germany.

The only way he could make it stick, IMHO, would be to create a wholly separate German state, with nothing sliced off for France, run entirely by Germans loyal to him. This state would be a vehicle for German nationalism and liberalism against the reactionary princedoms, ecclesiastical states, Imperial city oligarchies, and foreign overlords - e.g. the British Hanoverians, Danish Oldenburgs, Prussian Hohenzollerns, Austrian Hapsburgs. (The Wettins and Wittelsbachs might be co-opted.)
 
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