This Coalition-made peace deal would have kept France at her 1801 frontiers, with Belgium, the Rhineland, and Savoy. What would the impacts of this be in the short and long term?
WI: Napoleon accepts the Frankfurt Proposals
- Thread starter Mental_Wizard
- Start date
A lot of people here seems to agree that the British government authorities back at London would renege the deal and bribe the Coalition into doing so as well.
Which is precisely why Napoleon rejected the proposals : because proposals not binding for Britain were almost worthless.
Or because he wanted to win and conquer things instead of admitting he lost.
No. There are official sources that back my statement.
Napoleon said the proposals were deceptive and worthless because that were not binding for Britain and that if he accepted them, then he would still have to negotiate with Britain.
For Napoleon to accept proposals, then he needed to know the limits of what all his enemies would demand. Otherwise he would be duped.
Both sides were being deceiving.
The Coalition only offered the Frankfurt proposals because Metternich burned all of Austria's political power in the Coalition to convince them to offer those proposals, none of the other members had no interest to accept them and they just used them to reorganize their armies, specially the Prussian that was still trying to integrate Volunteers and militias with the regulars. And Napoleon only accepted the truce because he also didn't believed that the proposals were "binding" and like the other powers he spent the time reinforcing his armies, but his actitud during the negotiations didn't helped, he kept delaying because he still believed he could win and impose his peace into the Coalition members.
I agree with all of you that trust was an issue, especially as everyone kept changing sides and stabbing each other in the back, while crushing all the little states they were supposed to protect. If the Frankfurt Proposal was executed it would probably just end with Italy begging Habsburgs and the Confederation of the Rhine staying as it was, though perhaps with the Prussians trying to do what they initially did when allying with France, take all the land wondered by the British monarch, though this time by just claiming Westphalia as war booty. Napoleon would also be unlikely to accept as he needed victories to keep power. Plus all those dukes, counts, and other things he set up required massive amounts of money from the German and Italian states to pay for their stipends and lifestyles.
Alcsentre Calanice
Gone Fishin'
So first he gives up his position of strength in Europe, and once he withdrew behind the Rhine, they'll attack him while he's weak?
Standard procedure. I expect they would first go through a period of crushing Poles, getting allegiance of the various people Confederation of the Rhine, and decide who gets what in Italy between the Bourbons and Habsburgs. Maybe they decide not to give anything to the Savoyards in this? It is a juicy piece of land. Or at least not let them get Genoa along with Piedmont.
Yup. Only Austria wanted a Napoleonic France, the rest wanted a pre-revolution borders France.
In that case,is there any chance of getting Austria to defect if Napoleon tries to compromise with Austria and get some sort of deal where they both benefit?
longsword14
Banned
Have it happen after early in 1813, so that the war becomes difficult for Russia-Prussia to prosecute. Say, Napoleon tries to settle things by having the Austrians mediate, letting the Hapsburgs more influence/ territory in Central Europe. No Army of Bohemia, another flank secured compared to OTL, if Napoleon plays his cards right to do Bautzen/ Dresden, the allies might find themselves unable to do much but accept.
Maaaaybe if he didn't have many agreements that he then renegade on. Sure, the Kings of Europe did the same or made agreements in bad faith, but when you decide someone is an enemy you put more focus on their actions. Look up the Grand Duchy of Tuscany and check out how things were in the Napoleonic Wars to see how the Spanish, French, Austria would step on their relatives, seize church lands, etc to get their goals. Which was mainly to make themselves as big as possible.
Anyways, as said by others, an early change would be needed. Perhaps an earlier marriage to a Habsurg, though I doubt it would have been accepted until after Napoleon basically ruled the continent, and his siblings marry Habrugs and give them Tuscany, Naples, etc, and have agreements drawn up ahead of time for more Habsburgs to marry the Bonaparte heirs.
Austria wasn't suicidal. The Anglo-Portuguese-Spanish army was advancing in the south towards France and the Prussian-Russian forces had gathered more man than most thought possible in the East, Austria joining France would be against Metternich's policy of always trying to get the best to Austria and in 1813 the odds were against Napoleon.
Could Tallyrand have worked some diplomatic magic to get a compromise? France gets Belgium but the Belgian coast/Antwerp are demilitarized?
Why would the coalition be bribed if it had everything it wanted?
After all, during the ARW all our money couldn't get us any ally more important than the Elector of Hesse - because no one else had any interest in backing us. In the Napoleonic Wars they took our money because we were paying them to do what they wanted to do, and saw it as in their interest to do.
But without the Golden Cavalry of St.George,how affordable was the war to the Coalition?
The Coalition had no need for bribes to restart the war, it was Austria that pushed for the peace offers the rest of the Coalition just accepted the idea of the truce to reorganize their forces. Neither side went to the negotiations in good faith.
That's the great problem if GB leaves the Coalition. I don't have the numbers right now, but in the 7YW British money represented a third of the Prussian budget during the war years, in 1813 it would probably represent more than that, so the Coalition would have problems keeping the pre-Frankfurt armies on the field at full strength, but France was also suffering problems in that department but without GB no Pyrenees Front, more troops in Germany for France, it will end in a much more bloody war.