GunsCarsGuitars
Banned
You say that like its a bad thing The F7F is a beautiful plane.
Oh, no doubt! But Viperjock has repeatedly brought the F7F into a P-38 thread, so he obviously has the hots for the twin-engine Grumman.
You say that like its a bad thing The F7F is a beautiful plane.
This does not appear to be a well understood phenomenon these days...computing power and obscene greed, combined, have brought us to this point.No, you're misunderstanding me. I mean, they were overbuilt, stronger than the spec called for, because testing at the factory wasn't done like it is now. Today, an airliner would be put in a hangar & the wing loaded til it breaks, & it wouldn't be built one pound stronger than it needed to be to carry the planned load. In the '30s & '40s, that wasn't true.
I'd say it's about healthy profit. Airline profits are pretty thin at the best of times, so if an airliner can carry a few more pounds of (paying) freight... Computing power may play a part in how fine it's possible to cut it, today, but the idea of testing a wing to destruction & only making it as strong as it had to be did not require anything more than an insightful engineer & a slipstick: when you know how much load causes your design to fail, & you know what the spec asks for, it ain't rocket surgery to subtract...computing power and obscene greed
Minor sidetrack but here have a pretty US aircraft (I have no idea what it is) to go with this AMAZING story.
And i'll say it again, whilst this story is very technical and detail intensive, its not at all overwhelming or intimidating if you're like me, and know very little about planes other than in WW2 they went dakka-dakk-dakka and neeeeyown. Its damn well written and very characterful too.
If I had to fathom a guess, I would say it most closely resembles the Douglas TBD Devastator. As you said, maybe it is an XTBD?Does anyone know what that plane is? I'm drawing a blank. The original X-version of a changed and better known plane maybe?
Does anyone know what that plane is? I'm drawing a blank. The original X-version of a changed and better known plane maybe?
I'd say it's about healthy profit. Airline profits are pretty thin at the best of times, so if an airliner can carry a few more pounds of (paying) freight... Computing power may play a part in how fine it's possible to cut it, today, but the idea of testing a wing to destruction & only making it as strong as it had to be did not require anything more than an insightful engineer & a slipstick: when you know how much load causes your design to fail, & you know what the spec asks for, it ain't rocket surgery to subtract...
Does anyone know what that plane is? I'm drawing a blank. The original X-version of a changed and better known plane maybe?
Does anyone know what that plane is? I'm drawing a blank. The original X-version of a changed and better known plane maybe?
Vultee V-12, completely changed variant of the V-11, and changed again with later V-12 variants.
But please try to stay on track.
Vultee V-12 I believe. I find Vultee's numbering scheme a bit confusing, as the V-11's & V-12's seem to have a number of configurations.
I can see that for the noobs, but in conversion training? That's equal to about a quarter of the total syllabus Stateside, isn't it? Or more?
It's a good thing to do for the situation. This is the introduction of a brand new and powerful and complex airplane to the first of the combat squadrons that will be using them. Aside from the small number of F-4 photo-recon airplanes. The freshly minted pilots from the States get a chance to learn combat tactics from the veterans and get acclimated to the tropics. Presumably the conversion training would have been occurring at Charters Towers just west of Townsville in Australia.
The veteran pilots get a chance to rest up, eat decent food and maybe recover from any tropical ailments that may have contracted in Papua New Guinea. They also get lots of time to learn the P-38. A more complex airplane than any of them have flown before in OTL or the ATL.
Both the new guys and veterans aren't just doodling along looking at the outback scenery. They would have been practicing navigation and formation flying. Mock combat and gunnery practice too. Though not at the same time I hope. And every flight hour in the new plane brings the pilots more familiarity so reactions to surprises become fast and automatic and correct. I believe that if the situation at the time is not too dire then time spent on training is never wasted.
Gives the 5th air force command staff and senior pilots an opportunity to evaluate their new airplane and consider how best to deploy it. The ground and maintenance crews especially the crew chiefs get familiarized with their new P-38s as well. Everything learned here will facilitate the later conversions of other squadrons as more Lightnings are shipped to the SWPA hopefully in TTL.
I believe they usually skip "I" because it can be confused for a lower-case "L" ("l") or a nemeric "1," so the next one after H will be J and ITTL it will take the place of the OTL L although the specific start of production will depend on how ambitious they get with it. If they go for the Hydromatics they will first need a second factory running at full capacity to minimize production impact so the Army will actually allow them the couple weeks to retool.I'm going to guess that the F-15 engined paddle-bladed Lightning will be model P-38I with production beginning in Dec. 1943. Second sources permitting.
Don't bet on it (in either case). (I presume you meant "aisle".)we're obviously on opposite sides of the isle..same as the country.
I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I just find it unlikely. I could see maybe half that in conversion training Stateside, but once you've got qualified fliers, they'd be presumed to know how to aim & shoot & such, & all they'd really need to be taught is how to keep the P-38 from killing them (& maybe not all those ways, either; they'd be presumed to know, frex, how to switch fuel tanks--which might not be so clear-cut in the P-38 as they think...).It's a good thing to do for the situation. This is the introduction of a brand new and powerful and complex airplane to the first of the combat squadrons that will be using them. Aside from the small number of F-4 photo-recon airplanes. The freshly minted pilots from the States get a chance to learn combat tactics from the veterans and get acclimated to the tropics. Presumably the conversion training would have been occurring at Charters Towers just west of Townsville in Australia.
The veteran pilots get a chance to rest up, eat decent food and maybe recover from any tropical ailments that may have contracted in Papua New Guinea. They also get lots of time to learn the P-38. A more complex airplane than any of them have flown before in OTL or the ATL.
Both the new guys and veterans aren't just doodling along looking at the outback scenery. They would have been practicing navigation and formation flying. Mock combat and gunnery practice too. Though not at the same time I hope. And every flight hour in the new plane brings the pilots more familiarity so reactions to surprises become fast and automatic and correct. I believe that if the situation at the time is not too dire then time spent on training is never wasted.
Gives the 5th air force command staff and senior pilots an opportunity to evaluate their new airplane and consider how best to deploy it. The ground and maintenance crews especially the crew chiefs get familiarized with their new P-38s as well. Everything learned here will facilitate the later conversions of other squadrons as more Lightnings are shipped to the SWPA hopefully in TTL.
I am very surprised by a number that's so high. I wouldn't have expected conversion from single to twin to be so difficult. After all, the trainees were transitioned right from T-6s into P-51s, & it seemed never to occur to anybody a TP-51 might be a good idea...I got the 80 hours transition training for the 39th in the summer of 42 from a source about the history of the 39th or perhaps Lynch's history. I can't seem to find that source atm but I will look harder later amd post it when I do.
An elegant solution. Bravo. And, again, a fine update. I'm liking the insight into problem solving, but also the look at just how complicated flying a piston fighter was in those days. (Or, indeed, any aircraft...) Not like now.Lockheed had instead decided to use the voltage from the impulses to light small glow lamps which provided the pilot with a visual warning when the turbines were in an over-speed condition. The solution to the over-speeds that Kelly’s engineers came up with was to repurpose this impulse current to a high-frequency switch which actuates a secondary waste gate control.
I hadn't really considered it before. I think it unlikely though because no matter how good the P-38 may be Lockheed's best engineering resources are tied up in jet aircraft starting in June '43 with only small efforts going into further Lighting improvements OTL. Of course, that isn't to say the lightning can't shadow the Corsair and a contracted manufacturer couldn't develop a Super-Lightning like Goodyear did with the Super-Corsair. I mean Lockheed tried to do it with the XP-49 but they made it even heavier and bigger with troublesome engines. There might be a way to make it lighter and better.Question: do you anticipate a "lightweight" P-38, akin the XP-51H?