WI: Mysore gets a navy

1793 is too late for a (French assisted) Mysore navy. If you want a Mysore navy, you need to go back at least 30 years - to the beginning of his father's reign. His father did maintain a coast guard of sorts, but it was never capable of taking on the British. Learning to cope with the British on the seas is not something done in a day. After the Third Mysore War, his economy was crippled, war reparations made him squeeze his people & he was essentially toast. All his naval investments did was to weaken his army by diverting the meagre resources away from his army which was seriously hit in Third Mysore War. Proof positive? While the Third Mysore War continued for three years with him enjoying a lot of initial successes against both Travancore and the British, when the British, allied with Travancore, Marathas and the Nizam of Hydrabad hit at him, the Fourth Mysore War took just over six months to finish. After the Third Mysore War, he was essentially toast, with no more chance of competing with the British than Granada had against Castile.

Which is why I think, as stated in my post, that a POD is needed in the SECOND Anglo Mysore war
 
Which is why I think, as stated in my post, that a POD is needed in the SECOND Anglo Mysore war
The best PoD is probably in the First Mysore War. His father could have crippled the British if he had taken a chance (unfortunately, Haidar was a rather conservative general). He could have chased the British after his victory over Hector Munro at Kanchipuram & taken Madras. This would have given him the whip hand & crippled the British in the south. But long term, it is hard to turn around the whole thing in favour of Mysore without a lot of luck & some very deft diplomacy. They were just too outmatched by the British.
 
The best PoD is probably in the First Mysore War. His father could have crippled the British if he had taken a chance (unfortunately, Haidar was a rather conservative general). He could have chased the British after his victory over Hector Munro at Kanchipuram & taken Madras. This would have given him the whip hand & crippled the British in the south.

Which would have diverted British interest towards the Maratha Empire and the development of the Bencoolen Presidency. While Mysore could have focused on conquering Travancore and the carnatic coast.

Though I still think an earlier Patriot victory could have worked since that would mean France can send the forces meant for OTL America towards fighting the British as well as aiding it's Mysorean and Dutch Allies.

Though I am curious to know the details of why my POD can't work out.
 
Which would have diverted British interest towards the Maratha Empire and the development of the Bencoolen Presidency. While Mysore could have focused on conquering Travancore and the carnatic coast.

Though I still think an earlier Patriot victory could have worked since that would mean France can send the forces meant for OTL America towards fighting the British as well as aiding it's Mysorean and Dutch Allies.

The Dutch were playing a double role. They wanted the destruction of Tipu too. They played an active role in sparking off the Third Mysore War by selling their fortresses (Azhicottah & Kodungallur) in the Cochin Raja's territory (a Mysore vassal) to the Travancore Raja. They were closely allied with the Travancore Raja & they shared the Travancore Raja's dislike for Tipur. Further, they didn't really trust the French in the 1780s - at least not in India.

Though I am curious to know the details of why my POD can't work out.

The problem with the Second Mysore war is that it ended in a stalemate draw. In the Second Mysore War (which occurred simultaneously with the First Maratha War), the British fought all three major Indian powers in the south - Marathas, Mysore & Hyderabad & still the thing ended in a draw. The British base in the south has become too entrenched by the Second Mysore War. It is harder to throw them out in 1780s. It was in the First Mysore War that Mysore performed best & actually defeated the British quite a few times. To get a better outcome for Mysore in the Second Mysore War, you need to get a better outcome for the Marathas (but if the Marathas do better & get a better outcome at Salbai, they will be tempted to attack Mysore again ....). Marathas doing better is a 2 edged weapon for Mysore.
 
The problem with the Second Mysore war is that it ended in a stalemate draw. In the Second Mysore War (which occurred simultaneously with the First Maratha War), the British fought all three major Indian powers in the south - Marathas, Mysore & Hyderabad & still the thing ended in a draw. The British base in the south has become too entrenched by the Second Mysore War. It is harder to throw them out in 1780s. It was in the First Mysore War that Mysore performed best & actually defeated the British quite a few times. To get a better outcome for Mysore in the Second Mysore War, you need to get a better outcome for the Marathas (but if the Marathas do better & get a better outcome at Salbai, they will be tempted to attack Mysore again ....). Marathas doing better is a 2 edged weapon for Mysore.

That is believable. Though in such a scenario would the British turn their attention towards conquering the Maratha empire?
 
That is believable. Though in such a scenario would the British turn their attention towards conquering the Maratha empire?

Sooner or later, it is going to come to Mysore. Mysore was first in the line because it was the easiest to conquer - not only in terms of the army strength, but also in terms of the geographical accessibility. If you completely remove the British from the south in Second Mysore War, it is possible for Mysore to survive like Hyderabad - a landlocked state, battered into submission under the Subsidiary Alliance of Wellesley.
 
Sooner or later, it is going to come to Mysore. Mysore was first in the line because it was the easiest to conquer - not only in terms of the army strength, but also in terms of the geographical accessibility. If you completely remove the British from the south in Second Mysore War, it is possible for Mysore to survive like Hyderabad - a landlocked state, battered into submission under the Subsidiary Alliance of Wellesley.

I was thinking Mysore would retain it's border along the Krishna river in the north, while retaining a western coast with the inclusion of Travancore.
Most of my predictions came from this map made in the period:
HyderAliDominions1780max.jpg
 
I will reply to both @MagicalPhantom345 & @123456789blaaa here since their points are interlinked.

@123456789blaaa
Madhava Rao died of tuberculosis when he was in his 20s. Let us hypothetically grant him a life till 70. In fact, in the aftermath of Panipat, he was busy putting down all challenges to his throne. It was only by the late 1760s that he secured the upper hand, but then he died in 1772, IIRC. He already had made Haidar his primary target. His invasion of Srirangapattanam had Haidar agreeing to a humiliating peace after a disastrous defeat at Chinakurali. If he lives long, he is likely to do what the British did, but with a twist. He would remove Haidar restoring the old Hindu dynasty (less likely) or compelling Haidar into an alliance with Haidar agreeing to pay chauth & he was also keen on recovering the Maratha possessions in the Carnatic. By the time he died, he had regained the old Tungabhadra borders for the Marathas. Assuming that the Second Mysore War (& war with the British) occurs some time in the 1770s or 1780s, the British & Madhava Rao come into conflict. In this event, Mysore might side with the British. (neither Tipu, nor Haidar would consent to playing second fiddle to either Madhava Rao or the British), in this war, or at least play a waiting game to see who would come out on top in the Maratha-British conflict to join the winners. The next step would be determined by the outcome of this Maratha-British conflict. If it goes in favour of the Marathas, it would mean that the British would be forced to release Awadh as a fully independent state allied to the Marathas & forced to retreat to Bihar & Bengal. In the south, the British would be forced to give up their alliance with Travancore hand over the old Carnatic fortresses to the Marathas & be reduced to the Fort of Madras. Bombay would be given up or at least demilitarised. Northern Circars would be returned to the Nizam of Hyderabad. It is hard to envision the Marathas so successful that they would be able to overthrow the British power in Bengal itself. However, after Madhava Rao died, it would be back to square one for the British.

@MagicalPhantom345
It is hard for Mysore to retain her old Krishna borders because the Tungabhadra was considered the natural border between the Marathas & Mysore. What you are envisioning requires 3 things to happen.
a) Both the Marathas & Mysore are very successful in Second Mysore/First Maratha wars (not likely). Mysore, despite being a secondary theatre for the British here, didn't do all that well against the British. Only devastating success would induce the British to give up entire Carnatic, which is what is required for the British to be completely ousted from the Carnatic. The best they can hope to achieve is get what Haidar Ali was fighting for - control of Thiruchirappally & Madurai, maybe de facto suzerainty over Thanjavur. This would isolate the Travancore Raja & he might be compelled to do what the Cochin Raja did - acknowledge Haidar/Tipu supremacy.

b) As mentioned previously, if both Marathas & Mysore are very successful, it would also break the Maratha-Mysore alliance. They would immediately turn on each other, with the Marathas invading Mysore. If that happened, the Marathas are more likely to win, especially as they are coming in flush from a victory over the British. For Mysore to retain its Krishna borders, they have to win the war against the Marathas, or at least fight them to a draw. (not likely again).

c) It requires the British to be eventually eliminated from India totally by 1820s at least. The British would never allow a reasonably strong Indian power, especially one that has fought wars with them, to control the sea coast. Travancore was the biggest state that controlled the sea coast. If Haidar/Tipu/their successors control the sea coast, they would have to be reduced to Travancore levels of power. That means no Krishna border, no Travancore & no sea coast. The British never allowed the less hostile Hyderabad Nizam to control the sea coast. So the best outcome that for Tipu/his successors in the event of British success would be to have the territory that Mysore did (maybe some more like Salem, Dindigal, Bellary, etc).
 
If he lives long, he is likely to do what the British did, but with a twist. He would remove Haidar restoring the old Hindu dynasty (less likely) or compelling Haidar into an alliance with Haidar agreeing to pay chauth & he was also keen on recovering the Maratha possessions in the Carnatic. By the time he died, he had regained the old Tungabhadra borders for the Marathas. Assuming that the Second Mysore War (& war with the British) occurs some time in the 1770s or 1780s, the British & Madhava Rao come into conflict. In this event, Mysore might side with the British. (neither Tipu, nor Haidar would consent to playing second fiddle to either Madhava Rao or the British), in this war, or at least play a waiting game to see who would come out on top in the Maratha-British conflict to join the winners. The next step would be determined by the outcome of this Maratha-British conflict.

As mentioned previously, if both Marathas & Mysore are very successful, it would also break the Maratha-Mysore alliance. They would immediately turn on each other, with the Marathas invading Mysore. If that happened, the Marathas are more likely to win, especially as they are coming in flush from a victory over the British. For Mysore to retain its Krishna borders, they have to win the war against the Marathas, or at least fight them to a draw. (not likely again).

...WOW that was in depth.
 
Everyone seems to be ignoring one point: whatever Mysore does, they are not eliminating the British from North India. It was the British possessions in Bengal that financed the conquest of rest of India. As others have mentioned, South India was a many way contest with Mysore, the Marathas and Nizam along with the British and French. However, in North India, by 1767 (start of the first Mysore War) British were already ruling Bengal and had complete dominion over the whole Gangetic Plain. Also, if there is any indication that Mysore (or any other Indian power) is seriously developing a blue water navy, the British will eliminate that navy before it grows strong enough.
 
Everyone seems to be ignoring one point: whatever Mysore does, they are not eliminating the British from North India. It was the British possessions in Bengal that financed the conquest of rest of India. As others have mentioned, South India was a many way contest with Mysore, the Marathas and Nizam along with the British and French. However, in North India, by 1767 (start of the first Mysore War) British were already ruling Bengal and had complete dominion over the whole Gangetic Plain. Also, if there is any indication that Mysore (or any other Indian power) is seriously developing a blue water navy, the British will eliminate that navy before it grows strong enough.

We were fine with Britain retaining control of northern india
 
We were fine with Britain retaining control of northern india
Ok, but then wouldn't that allow the East India Company to apply the manpower and financial resources of North India to conquer the South? IIRC as late as 1885, Bengal + United Provinces accounted for almost 60% of British India tax income.
 
Ok, but then wouldn't that allow the East India Company to apply the manpower and financial resources of North India to conquer the South? IIRC as late as 1885, Bengal + United Provinces accounted for almost 60% of British India tax income.

What about the Maratha becoming serious about conquering the Bengali region, and come into conflict with the British over it?
 
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