WI:Muslim Missionaries more successful in the Philippines

What if the Muslim missionaries were more far more successful in the Philippines in the 15th century particularly in Luzon, what are the changes it could make in the Philippines?
 
To answer this, i must give you a question: does Islam become a unifying force in the Philippines? or does it remain feudal and uninterested in extending its influence beyond western Mindanao?

Because the Muslims only ever converted the south. In the north, it was always pagan. The only time Muslims came to the north was under sultan Bolkiah around the end of the fifteenth century. Just a couple decades before the Spanish conversion. Also, the Muslims always seemed to ignore Visayas.

Anyway, I don't think it would really make much of a difference. Unless the Sultans of Brunei build a large and powerful empire in two or three decades, Luzon would most likely fall under Spain. As well as Visayas.
 
To answer this, i must give you a question: does Islam become a unifying force in the Philippines? or does it remain feudal and uninterested in extending its influence beyond western Mindanao?

Because the Muslims only ever converted the south. In the north, it was always pagan. The only time Muslims came to the north was under sultan Bolkiah around the end of the fifteenth century. Just a couple decades before the Spanish conversion. Also, the Muslims always seemed to ignore Visayas.
Muslims were raiding visayas before the spanish came and the Visayans resisted the Moro raids before the Spanish came.

Indeed, the Visayans were noted for their resistance to conversion to Islam in the epic poem Diyandi of the Aginid chronicle. The name of the capital city of the island (Sugbo, "scorched earth")[note 3] was derived from the method of defense used by the natives against Moro raiders from Mindanao, which was to burn their settlements to the ground to prevent looting. They referred to the raiders as Magalos ("destroyers of peace").[note 4] As discussed in the previous section, the chronicle also records the founder of the Rajahnate of Cebu as Sri Lumay, who was the grandfather of Rajah Humabon, and a prince of the Indianized Chola dynasty.[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapu-Lapu#Religion

Anyway, I don't think it would really make much of a difference. Unless the Sultans of Brunei build a large and powerful empire in two or three decades, Luzon would most likely fall under Spain. As well as Visayas.
Or if the Kingdom of Tondo converts to Islam before it is attacked by Brunei.
 
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What if the Muslim missionaries were more far more successful in the Philippines in the 15th century particularly in Luzon, what are the changes it could make in the Philippines?

You need to butterfly away the Spanish. Iberia was at one point predominantly Muslim but is now predominantly Catholic since the Reconquista.

In OTL, Spain wasnt able to conquer other Islamic areas not due to Islam per se but factors that make Spanish conquest less attractive. Thus, less resource and less time are being placed.

Spain already got what it wanted, trade with China via Manila. For Spain, Conquering Sulu or any other Islamic sultanates was not profitable compared to defending the Galleon trade.
 
You need to butterfly away the Spanish. Iberia was at one point predominantly Muslim but is now predominantly Catholic since the Reconquista.

In OTL, Spain wasnt able to conquer other Islamic areas not due to Islam per se but factors that make Spanish conquest less attractive. Thus, less resource and less time are being placed.

Spain already got what it wanted, trade with China via Manila. For Spain, Conquering Sulu or any other Islamic sultanates was not profitable compared to defending the Galleon trade.

The Spanish getting the Philippines was very Butterflyable one is Magellan failing to circumnavigate or his fleet had a mutiny or if Castile unites with Portugal rather than Aragon causing Castile to have access on the spice trade with no competition.
 
Or if the Kingdom of Tondo converts to Islam before it is attacked by Brunei.

as far as i understand it, Tondo only converted because of the Bolkiahs.

so yeah, get the spanish away from OTL philippines and you might see a hegemonic Empire of Brunei.
 
as far as i understand it, Tondo only converted because of the Bolkiahs.

so yeah, get the spanish away from OTL philippines and you might see a hegemonic Empire of Brunei.

Tondo could convert without it being pressured by the Bolkiahs, Sulu and Tondo are in good terms in trading, Sulu also disliked the brunei, they only became in good terms because the Bruneians lost their empire.

Yeah the Bolkiah can be hegemonic empire but at least you have a Luzon with a Kapampangan majority, which is better than OTL
 
You need to butterfly away the Spanish. Iberia was at one point predominantly Muslim but is now predominantly Catholic since the Reconquista.

In OTL, Spain wasnt able to conquer other Islamic areas not due to Islam per se but factors that make Spanish conquest less attractive. Thus, less resource and less time are being placed.

Spain already got what it wanted, trade with China via Manila. For Spain, Conquering Sulu or any other Islamic sultanates was not profitable compared to defending the Galleon trade.
The Lumads and Muslims in Mindanao were unconquerable to the spanish and the pagan Lumads did not accept the missionaries sent by the Spanish yeah the spanish sent missionaries to them only to end up failing, perhaps the people of Luzon could do the same since the Igorots and the people of Mindoro, the Mangayans were unconquerable and unconvertable.
 
The Lumads and Muslims in Mindanao were unconquerable to the spanish and the pagan Lumads did not accept the missionaries sent by the Spanish yeah the spanish sent missionaries to them only to end up failing, perhaps the people of Luzon could do the same since the Igorots and the people of Mindoro, the Mangayans were unconquerable and unconvertable.

They were not unconquerable. They are just more resistant without any greater rewards. The Spanish didnt put enough resources to conquer those parts for good reason. If you put all Spains weight on Mindanao from around the globe, there is no way Mindanao will be able to repel that.

Spain already got what they wanted which is trade with China thru the Manila port. Forcing yourself down south is just a waste since Mindanao cannot offer any rewards greater than the risk. If Mindanao is richer than China, you may see the whole Spanish Armada forcing its way there accompanied with a larger army.

However, since there is no gain in putting more resources in a Mindanao invasion, those resources are better placed in protecting the ports in Luzon and the Galleon fleet.
 
They were not unconquerable. They are just more resistant without any greater rewards. The Spanish didnt put enough resources to conquer those parts for good reason. If you put all Spains weight on Mindanao from around the globe, there is no way Mindanao will be able to repel that.

Spain already got what they wanted which is trade with China thru the Manila port. Forcing yourself down south is just a waste since Mindanao cannot offer any rewards greater than the risk. If Mindanao is richer than China, you may see the whole Spanish Armada forcing its way there accompanied with a larger army.

However, since there is no gain in putting more resources in a Mindanao invasion, those resources are better placed in protecting the ports in Luzon and the Galleon fleet.
It is not the Spanish armada but rather the missionaries, they failed even if the Spanish armada conquered the Lumads, the Lumads returned to their old ways after the missionaries tried to converted them, the Spanish rule disappeared on those lands.

The people of Luzon and Mindanao could resist the Spanish they just needed to know how to resist the missionaries and the armada even if the armada tried to conquer if the people resisted and did not comply to what the spanish are asking to them they can expel the Spanish in that way the Spanish will try and try but fail.

The same could be said for the Aztecs if no one allied with the Spanish or complied to what they want to do, the Spanish can't do anything.

You can't resist Spanish catholic missionaries if you are under their rule. Spain was par excellence in inquisition, you either die, leave, or comply.
Yes, they did the Lumads did, it was the Spanish Catholic Missionaries that really established the control in the people not the conquistadors but the Lumads resisted because there were no people complying with the Spanish in the Lumads, when the missionaries tried to convert them they simply gone back to their old ways, the Spanish did displace the Lumads from the Lowlands and it is because the Visayans were the only people that would ally with the Spanish and steal the lands from the Lumads.

The Inquisition only works if there are people complying and accepting the missionaries and recognizing the Spanish rule.
 
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It is not the Spanish armada but rather the missionaries, they failed even if the Spanish armada conquered the Lumads, the Lumads returned to their old ways after the missionaries tried to converted them, the Spanish rule disappeared on those lands.

The people of Luzon and Mindanao could resist the Spanish they just needed to know how to resist the missionaries and the armada even if the armada tried to conquer if the people resisted and did not comply to what the spanish are asking to them they can expel the Spanish in that way the Spanish will try and try but fail.

The same could be said for the Aztecs if no one allied with the Spanish or complied to what they want to do, the Spanish can't do anything.

You can't resist Spanish catholic missionaries if you are under their rule. Spain was par excellence in inquisition, you either die, leave, or comply.

There are cases that even The more sophisticated, older culture cannot survive a conquering newer, younger culture in control. Otherwise, even the Egyptians/Persians won't convert to Islam nor speak Arabic.
 
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