WI: Muladi Reconquista

In Iberia from the mid-11th (Christian Era) century onward, the collapse of the Umayyad Caliphate of Cordoba into petty statelets is accompanied by the southward push of kingdoms established by the Basques, Goths, and Romans in the hills the Arabs and Berbers did not put the effort into taking.

Wait. How is this different from OTL?

Well, due to dynastic/political considerations, a few missionaries, and sheer luck the rulers of these states and a number of the inhabitants are Muslim. Heterodox sorts far more comfortable with neo-latin vernaculars than with Arabic, holding to a number of quasi-Christian/Germanic/Roman customs, and quite conscious of their distinction from the invaders from across the straits; but Muslim (and thus more reliant on local populations than adventurers from beyond the Pyrenees, although any of the latter that can be trusted to keep in order are not refused).
 
During the early-mid Reconquista, there was a pretty constant flow of Christian emigres from the Caliphate of Cordoba to the northern Christian kingdoms. If those northern kingdoms and duchies were Muslim and still imposed the jizya tax, there would be no reason for the emigration.

Unlike the OTL northern kingdoms, they would miss out on the flow of knowledge and technology from Cordoba, and the extra manpower from receiving settlers. As such they would be susceptible to invasion both from the southern taifas and from the Franks.
 
This would have to occur very early on as the Muladis were more or less Arabized by the 11th century, if not early. The local Romance dialects were in decline and would suffer a fate similar to Coptic and Aramaic in the Middle East. They even forged genealogies to claim descent from the prophet Mohammad and his companions so they would be more like the Arab political elite. Arabization was a feature, not a bug of becoming part of the Islamic culture and the muladis would not cast that aside and emphasize Romanitas as the Visigoths had done during their rule of Hispania. Arabic is the language of prestige due to it being the language of the Quran.
 
This would have to occur very early on as the Muladis were more or less Arabized by the 11th century, if not early. The local Romance dialects were in decline and would suffer a fate similar to Coptic and Aramaic in the Middle East. They even forged genealogies to claim descent from the prophet Mohammad and his companions so they would be more like the Arab political elite. Arabization was a feature, not a bug of becoming part of the Islamic culture and the muladis would not cast that aside and emphasize Romanitas as the Visigoths had done during their rule of Hispania. Arabic is the language of prestige due to it being the language of the Quran.
So you are thinking that the odds of the place becoming akin to Persia are low. What made the latter so different?
 
Persia is pretty Arabized IOTL and the Ummayads, had they not been overthrown, would've been successful in doing to Persian what it did to other languages. It took a national revival by the Samanids centuries later to make Persian relevant again on the same level as Arabic. Also the Persians quickly abandoned Zoroastrianism and took to influencing Islam and the Arabic culture during the Abbasids. The Arabs had no interest in preserving Greco-Roman culture or language; it did not have the same prestige as it had for the Goths centuries ago. They were the enemy, the infidel that needed to convert. For the Muladis, Arabic held the status of cultural and religious prestige and the Romance dialects were the language of an increasingly disappearing religious minority - there was no competition.
 
Persia is pretty Arabized IOTL and the Ummayads, had they not been overthrown, would've been successful in doing to Persian what it did to other languages. It took a national revival by the Samanids centuries later to make Persian relevant again on the same level as Arabic. Also the Persians quickly abandoned Zoroastrianism and took to influencing Islam and the Arabic culture during the Abbasids. The Arabs had no interest in preserving Greco-Roman culture or language; it did not have the same prestige as it had for the Goths centuries ago. They were the enemy, the infidel that needed to convert. For the Muladis, Arabic held the status of cultural and religious prestige and the Romance dialects were the language of an increasingly disappearing religious minority - there was no competition.
The thing is if the Persians were assimilated by the Arabs the the Pagans in the North like Afghans and the Kurds who were not converted would not convert, we might see a christian or pagan Kurdish state and a hostile Pagan state in the north and Islam would not spread east if being arab is the requirement for islam.
 
For the Muladis, Arabic held the status of cultural and religious prestige and the Romance dialects were the language of an increasingly disappearing religious minority - there was no competition.
I think we may be talking past one another. I do not propose that the locals currying favor with the Arab/Berber rulers of Al-Andalus take over, but that the northerners that did in OTL pick up Islam.
 
The thing is if the Persians were assimilated by the Arabs the the Pagans in the North like Afghans and the Kurds who were not converted would not convert, we might see a christian or pagan Kurdish state and a hostile Pagan state in the north and Islam would not spread east if being arab is the requirement for islam.
Some Kurds remained pagans and became Yazidis.
 
I think we may be talking past one another. I do not propose that the locals currying favor with the Arab/Berber rulers of Al-Andalus take over, but that the northerners that did in OTL pick up Islam.

I don't see why they would. The mountains made it extremely easy for men like Pelagius to defend against the Muslims. The north was not an attractive target as it was poor and isolated - the Muslims were content leaving them be. In any case, should he fail, the Franks will lead the charge in the "Reconquista." Al-Andalus was ethnically divided and prone to balkanization - it makes it an easy target for Christian Europe to assault.

Best case scenario is that southern Spain remains under Islamic rule but even then it would most likely be an appendage of greater Morocco and run by Berbers - not muladis.
 
I don't see why they would. The mountains made it extremely easy for men like Pelagius to defend against the Muslims. The north was not an attractive target as it was poor and isolated - the Muslims were content leaving them be
I will not pretend it is a likely scenario; but between dynastic mixups (Pamplona accepting a scion of the Banu Qasi on the throne so long as he treats the local warfighters as freemen rather than dhimmis), vaguely heretical preachers frowning on Arab elitism wandering north, and simply cutting better deals on tribute in return for pro-forma conversion I would not call it sealion-class.

Best case scenario is that southern Spain remains under Islamic rule but even then it would most likely be an appendage of greater Morocco and run by Berbers - not muladis.
Perhaps a split because reliable muscle from beyond the Pyrenees is not forthcoming?
 
Well to be fair, the Banu Qasi is your best bet but it is very hard. I wouldn't call it Sealion-tier. Some syncretism is possible; it was popular with the Berbers who were on the periphery of Arab rule. Likewise with the Qasi.
 
I've often tried to engineer a similar thing (a Romance-speaking Muslim Iberia) but pretty much there's either no way or close to no way, whoever I'd spoken with. A shame, but you know, Depends on how realistic you want to be with your alt-history.
 
Persia is pretty Arabized IOTL and the Ummayads, had they not been overthrown, would've been successful in doing to Persian what it did to other languages. It took a national revival by the Samanids centuries later to make Persian relevant again on the same level as Arabic. Also the Persians quickly abandoned Zoroastrianism and took to influencing Islam and the Arabic culture during the Abbasids. The Arabs had no interest in preserving Greco-Roman culture or language; it did not have the same prestige as it had for the Goths centuries ago. They were the enemy, the infidel that needed to convert. For the Muladis, Arabic held the status of cultural and religious prestige and the Romance dialects were the language of an increasingly disappearing religious minority - there was no competition.

Wrong, Persia didn't become majority Muslim until well into the 11th century. Zoroastrian traditions are still practiced among Muslim Persians. Also, there is no evidence that Persians were on their way to being Arabized and saved by the Abbassids. The Ummayads were not into Arabization and wanted to keep the Arabs as an elite minority. The reason Persian became a prestige language in the early Islamic world is because the entire Persian speaking world was incorporated into the empire and most of the Sassanid beuracracy was used to govern the new Islamic state. If the Arabs had managed to incorporate all of the Latin speaking world and state apparatuses then maybe Latin would have also become a prestige language in the western mediterranean.
 
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