WI: Muhammad declares a successor?

OTL, Muhammad died after a short illness in AD 632. The ambiguity of succession following his death led to the power struggle between factions for Muhammad's son-in-law (quasi-inheritance) and his father-in-law (elective), leading to the split between Shia and Sunni.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_to_Muhammad

WI Muhammad had left a clear designation as to his spiritual and temporal successors (not necessarily the same person)? Would Islam today be undivided, or would some other power struggle, disguising itself as an ideological rift, inevitably manifest?
 
It all depends on who he names to succeed him, and what revelations accompany it. There were many candidates in OTL, and in naming a successor, muhammed will probably include a mechanism for picking future successors.
 

Glen

Moderator
Interesting, interesting. I think it results in Islam staying unified in the early centuries. However, I suspect there will be some fractionation at some point over the centuries, for some reason.
 
Wasn't there a hadith which stated that Ali ibn Abi Talib was Mahomet's successor?

Nope. Unless some Shiite told you.... :rolleyes:

Btw, it's Muhammad! I suppose most people in this board had known it already the correct spelling of the name and I don't know why you're not one of them...
 
It doesn't really matter how anyone spells in the Latin script, since it's محمد anyway. Btw, I'm Muslim, so it's not offensive to me.
 
It doesn't really matter how anyone spells in the Latin script, since it's محمد anyway. Btw, I'm Muslim, so it's not offensive to me.

It's actually matter because the last letter is 'dal' so it should be transliterated into 'd' letter in Latin, especially in Latin language. Besides Mahomet sounds not so pretty, remembering the Baphomet-stereotype quite attached to it, thanks to Chanson de Geste...

I believe he wasn't offensive, and it's not like I feel offended, I'm just worried here...

Btw, nice to see fellow Muslim here, Assalaamu'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh :)
 
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Hashasheen

Banned
It's actually matter because the last letter is 'dal' so it should be transliterated into 'd' letter in Latin, especially in Latin language. Besides Mahomet sounds not so pretty, remembering the Baphomet-stereotype quite attached to it, thanks to Chanson de Geste...

I believe he wasn't offensive, and it's not like I feel offended, I'm just worried here...

Btw, nice to see fellow Muslim here, Assalaamu'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh :)
kaifoka ya sidi wa salaamo alaika,
i'm lebanese was up
 
WI Muhammad had left a clear designation as to his spiritual and temporal successors (not necessarily the same person)? Would Islam today be undivided, or would some other power struggle, disguising itself as an ideological rift, inevitably manifest?

Wether or not there will be a (major) power struggle or a civil war among the Muslims, will all depend on how good of a leader Mohammed's successor will prove himself to be.

There will certainly be at least some opposition to the one that Mohammed chose as his successor, and even if he proves himself to be an excellent leader, there will still be people opposing him.

And if he proves himself to be an incapable leader (i.e. he fails to resolve conflicts within the Muslim community and/or loses one or more major battles againest his enemies), then he could very well lose support among the Muslims, and Islam could actually become far more divided than in OTL.


..
As for other ideas about Mohammed's successors; it would be very interesting if Mohammed had a grown-up son.

To my knowledge, Mohammed had only one son IOTL; Ibrahim, who died in infancy.

It would certainly be quite interesting to see what kind of effects it would have had on Islam if Ibrahim would have survived into adulthood, and especially if he proves himself to be at least a half-decent leader.
 
Division is inevitible sooner or later. Any large religon will have different sects. Even Sunni and Shites are divided into smaller sects.
 

Leo Caesius

Banned
Wasn't there a hadith which stated that Ali ibn Abi Talib was Mahomet's successor?
You're talking about the Hadith of Ghadir Khumm.

Nope. Unless some Shiite told you.... :rolleyes:
This particular hadith is accepted as saheeh by all of the standard collections, but the meaning of the hadith and its collection are disputed by Sunni and Shii scholars.

Btw, it's Muhammad! I suppose most people in this board had known it already the correct spelling of the name and I don't know why you're not one of them...
Indeed, usually when people spell the name Mahomet they are either incorrigible reactionaries or they have some sort of political or religious axe to grind.

It's actually matter because the last letter is 'dal' so it should be transliterated into 'd' letter in Latin, especially in Latin language. Besides Mahomet sounds not so pretty, remembering the Baphomet-stereotype quite attached to it, thanks to Chanson de Geste...
I suspect that it's a Turkish form, because Turkish has a final-consonant devoicing rule where Arabic does not. In any case, it is incorrect for several reasons:

  • Classical Arabic has no "o" sound. The o in Mahomet may be an attempt to indicate the coloring of the a-vowel in the second syllable after a pharyngeal consonant, but this is not a convention in any transcription system;
  • The second m is extra-long, which is almost always indicated by doubling in the conventional transcription systems. This spelling fails to indicate it, which can only be viewed as a critical defect;
  • The final consonant is, as you have observed, a d, the same d you find in any European language, including English and Romanian, our friend's mother tongue. Outside of Turkish or German, this segment would not be devoiced.
kaifoka ya sidi wa salaamo alaika,
i'm lebanese was up
Ahlan wa-sahlan ya rafiqi. Minein inta fi Lubnaan? Inta Beiruti?
 
I have nothing against Islam,I am just used to spelling it this way,in romanian it can be spelled both Mahomet and Mahomed,if I offend the Muslim members here,I will try to correct my spelling.
 

Leo Caesius

Banned
Oh, I forgot one thing:
  • Alternately, the vowel of the first syllable (a damma, or u sound) and the vowel of the second syllable (a fatha, or a sound) appear to have been flipped at some point, which is another peculiarity of this word that would never be reproduced by any systematic transcription system.
Let's face it, it's a crappy spelling. I wouldn't abandon it for the sake of PC or whatever it is you fear, I would just abandon it because it's wrong in so many ways. But the fact that it is common in Romanian leads me to suspect Turkish influence all the more (although in Turkish the name is either Muhammed or Mehmet, if you're not talking about THE Muhammad).
 
Nope. Unless some Shiite told you.... :rolleyes:

Btw, it's Muhammad! I suppose most people in this board had known it already the correct spelling of the name and I don't know why you're not one of them...

Someone should have told Tim Rice when he devised the libretto for Jesus Christ Superstar.:D:rolleyes:
 
I have nothing against Islam,I am just used to spelling it this way,in romanian it can be spelled both Mahomet and Mahomed,if I offend the Muslim members here,I will try to correct my spelling.

That's okay - in French it's kinda funky too.
 
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