WI: Mortimer England and Lancastrian Gascony

Is a Mortimer England and Lancastrian Gascony possible? with a POD of changing the personality of Bolingbroke or him not betraying Richard II?
 
No, that was the original plan before Henry Bolingbroke and Richard II had issues with each other.

Sounds like a shitty deal to me. You're essentially sowing the seeds for discord, since both sides have something the other wants. Bolingbroke wants his ancestral estates (since I imagine there's going to be a trade-off, he renounces those, in favour of of getting Gascony) in England restored, Mortimer would want his "birthright" Gascony returned. And the French would play the two off against each other
 
Sounds like a shitty deal to me. You're essentially sowing the seeds for discord, since both sides have something the other wants. Bolingbroke wants his ancestral estates (since I imagine there's going to be a trade-off, he renounces those, in favour of of getting Gascony) in England restored, Mortimer would want his "birthright" Gascony returned. And the French would play the two off against each other
But Bolingbroke's dad is the Duke of Gascony so that might work, he retains his estates as well in that scenario.

The surviving Plantagenets would have Gascony while Mortmers have England.
 
But Bolingbroke's dad is the Duke of Gascony so that might work, he retains his estates as well in that scenario.

The surviving Plantagenets would have Gascony while Mortmers have England.

And Mortimer? Is he or whoever is regent for him (should he still be underage when he succeeds) just be okay to watch as HALF his kingdom goes walking away for no other good reason than the previous king bargained it away to someone who wanted to cause trouble?

That's like saying Prince Charles must just accept it if his mom were to give Scotland to Prince Andrew (probably not, but hopefully you get the symmetry I'm going for)

@The Professor? @Tyler96 @anyone else
 
Since Bolingbroke invaded to obtain his Lancastrian lands in the first place - getting England was a fortunate opportunity - why would he give them up?
 
And Mortimer? Is he or whoever is regent for him (should he still be underage when he succeeds) just be okay to watch as HALF his kingdom goes walking away for no other good reason than the previous king bargained it away to someone who wanted to cause trouble?

That's like saying Prince Charles must just accept it if his mom were to give Scotland to Prince Andrew (probably not, but hopefully you get the symmetry I'm going for)

@The Professor? @Tyler96 @anyone else

Since Bolingbroke invaded to obtain his Lancastrian lands in the first place - getting England was a fortunate opportunity - why would he give them up?

It would be similar to losing Hanover.
 
I just finished reading about the reign of Richard II, and a better POD for the scenario is to put Richard II in Gascony and have Henry IV be King of England.

The scenario is that Richard II is somewhat saner than IOTL. ITTL Bolingbroke still invades when Richard is in Ireland. Richard lands in Wales and quickly realizes that Bolingborke can't be stopped, does not proceed further into Wales, and bugs out. He still has a fleet, having just crossed the Irish Sea, and still has his Chesire archers, and goes to Bordeaux, where he was born after all. The King of France is more than happy to have him to homage as Duke of Gascony after Bolinbroke is crowned as King Henry IV because this separates Gascony from England. And Henry IV can't do a thing about it because it means invading France and he is no position to either raise the money or really to leave England with rebellions still breaking out.

The interesting question about where this scenario goes is whether Richard eventually has a son or a daughter, what happens to Gascony if he dies without one, whether he is able to maintain himself in the duchy, and if he is still around when Henry V invades France (he would be in his late forties).
 
And Mortimer? Is he or whoever is regent for him (should he still be underage when he succeeds) just be okay to watch as HALF his kingdom goes walking away for no other good reason than the previous king bargained it away to someone who wanted to cause trouble?

A really messy regency and concomitant decay of central authority is maybe a reasonable scenario for Gascony to breakaway, though it'd beg the question as to why the Lancasters aren't trying anything in England.
 
A really messy regency and concomitant decay of central authority is maybe a reasonable scenario for Gascony to breakaway, though it'd beg the question as to why the Lancasters aren't trying anything in England.
Because the French wanted that as a part of a peace treaty.
 
Top