WI: Mongol conquest of India
- Thread starter Zuvarq
- Start date
Mongols didn't feel good south of Aphganistan, India was just too hot for them, even first Mughals preferred cool aphgan highlands over newly conquered indian plains, so I think mongolian conquest of India in 13th century is very unlikely.
Delvestius
Banned
This is a lot of it. The horde that eventually became the Il-Khanate figured that pushing south into the sub-continent wasn't worth the effort, because Persia and Europe were easier targets for them.
It would be interesting to see full Mongolian dissemination down the Indian sub-continent. The effect may have been a slightly more east Il-Khanate based in Delhi or Kandahar. My thoughts are a possible Arab survival, a possible Arab collapse (leading to a number of Indian-ruled states in the Middle East), Hindu Kush dwellers feeling closer to Persians than Indians and a greater population of Muslims in North India. I wonder if the Mongols would only rule as far as Rajasthan and Maratha, and exact tribute on the Dravidian states instead of annexing them, such as they did with the Byzantines.
Kaiphranos
Donor
Alas, I'm not much up on Indian history--what was the situation like in northern India OTL during that period? Were there factors other than climate and easier targets elsewhere that prevented Mongol expansion into the region? Could we see something like Batu's expedition in Europe, but directed at the subcontinent instead?
Edit: actually, it looks like there was, but it just didn't get much of anywhere.
Edit: actually, it looks like there was, but it just didn't get much of anywhere.
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MarshalBraginsky
Banned
Could it be possible if only a portion of India was conquered by the Mongols?
Would the Mongols conquerors of India convert to Islam, the religion of the Turkic rulers of most Northern Indian states in the XIII century? Or might they become Hinduists, as other invaders of India had done in the past? The first seems more likely, but the second option is way more interesting, and might have enormous butterflies...
scholar
Banned
The Mongol invasions of India were halfhearted in the beginning and done by remnants and shadows afterwards, so they are not reliable indicators of what could or could not have been. I don't put too much faith in their ability to conquer India, rather I'd put it with just about as much faith as one would have for Southern China falling. Southern China would be conquered by the Chinese from the northern states and state of the art technology, India might be conquered in a similar way. It might be interesting to see what would happen if India fell, but the Song endured. In fact that might be a very good premise for a timeline.
As to the topic of the religion of the Mongol invaders, should it occur while the Horde is still the Horde and not only a dejure federation or even worse a remnant of a remnant. If its in the beginning there's a very good chance that the Mongols will adopt the religion of the bureaucracy and ministers inside of India. Given the rather intense hatred towards Muslims (at least at the start) the taking of India could provide a shift away from the Mongols even becoming predominately Muslim. The conversion of the steppe to Islam being a product of the Mongol invasion. This also might prevent the rise of a genocidal madman who butchered the Middle East in such a way that a primarily Christian region became a predominately Muslim one built upon the foundation of tens of thousands of corpses. Which in turn has its own little butterflies.
Should it come later, particularly after the Il Khanate converted to Islam, then there's no chance of a Hindu Mongol Empire. At least, not within reasonable confines of projection. You'd need to force it to happen.
As to the topic of the religion of the Mongol invaders, should it occur while the Horde is still the Horde and not only a dejure federation or even worse a remnant of a remnant. If its in the beginning there's a very good chance that the Mongols will adopt the religion of the bureaucracy and ministers inside of India. Given the rather intense hatred towards Muslims (at least at the start) the taking of India could provide a shift away from the Mongols even becoming predominately Muslim. The conversion of the steppe to Islam being a product of the Mongol invasion. This also might prevent the rise of a genocidal madman who butchered the Middle East in such a way that a primarily Christian region became a predominately Muslim one built upon the foundation of tens of thousands of corpses. Which in turn has its own little butterflies.
Should it come later, particularly after the Il Khanate converted to Islam, then there's no chance of a Hindu Mongol Empire. At least, not within reasonable confines of projection. You'd need to force it to happen.
PhilippeO
Banned
Mongol invasion of India is stopped by Zafar Khan and Alauddin Khilji
if Mongol victorious, Delhi Sultanate might be annexed by Mongol, its administrative structure would be used by Mongols to govern India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alauddin_Khilji
if Mongol victorious, Delhi Sultanate might be annexed by Mongol, its administrative structure would be used by Mongols to govern India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alauddin_Khilji
But the Mongols were during the Delhi Sultanate's peak....what Babur and Timur dealt with was a shadow of itself.
The Sultanate had encompassed almost all of India at one point.
scholar
Banned
The Mongols crushed many states at their height, and the initial attempts at India were not done with ferver. Later attempts were done by the Chagatai, a state in open contention with both the Il Khanate and the Eastern Khanates led by generals that were not seen as nearly half the caliber of some of the initial conquerors.
Persia wasn't some weak nation when it was ransacked. And Delhi's peak seems to take place closer to Timur than the Mongols.
I know that, I was just responding to the post about Timur curbstomping them. And by the time he showed up, it had definitely crumbled. Alauddin Khilji however, defeated the Mongols when they tried, and a previous poster noted this.
scholar
Banned
More than thirty years after the Mongol Empire was torn asunder and kept alive in name only, if memory serves.
The Il Khanate wars with Delhi were halfhearted, initial skirmishes were not fully supported, and the Chagatai had been fighting other Mongol Khanates and showing less than competent prowess at war when it began its invasions.
Even so....there is always doubt. Even the Mughals conquering the Sultanate wasn't a sure thing. Hell, Babur could have lost to Rana Sangha. The Rajputs are also a large factor in any invasion of India.
scholar
Banned
True, but we aren't talking about a guaranteed success. Simply that there was an opportunity that it could have happened and contemplating the consequences of such an event.