WI: Molotov-Ribbentrop pact gives Nazis everything

What if the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact had given the Nazis all of Poland and the Baltic States. Stalin's aim would be to not look like the aggressor and 'Liberate' Eastern Europe at a later date.
 
What if the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact had given the Nazis all of Poland and the Baltic States. Stalin's aim would be to not look like the aggressor and 'Liberate' Eastern Europe at a later date.
.... Meaning Stalin makes an alliance that Germany gets the Baltic States and Poland in exchange for... What? Moldova?
 
What if the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact had given the Nazis all of Poland and the Baltic States. Stalin's aim would be to not look like the aggressor and 'Liberate' Eastern Europe at a later date.

The problem is, if the German jumping off point in '41 was farther to the east, there might not have been an opportunity to liberate anything later....I'm sure Stalin wanted turf to provide a buffer between him and the reich.
 
The problem is, if the German jumping off point in '41 was farther to the east, there might not have been an opportunity to liberate anything later....I'm sure Stalin wanted turf to provide a buffer between him and the reich.
Indeed, Leningrad could basically be taken during the initial-confusion stage, and Moscow is also in easy reach (only about 780 km, the historical distance to Smolensk). Kiev, too, would be in easy reach of German forces.

In short, Stalin would be better off just doing nothing rather than condoning a 'Germany gets everything' pact.
 
This would embolden Hitler and the Nazis further. They would see this is a sign of weakness and also "Judeo-Bolshevik" (as Hitler viewed the Communist government of the USSR) stupidity. It certainly wouldn't stop Hitler's megalomaniac plans to conquer the USSR.
 
What if the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact had given the Nazis all of Poland and the Baltic States. Stalin's aim would be to not look like the aggressor and 'Liberate' Eastern Europe at a later date.

.... Meaning Stalin makes an alliance that Germany gets the Baltic States and Poland in exchange for... What? Moldova?

it is implausible for USSR to sign agreement in which they do not gain part of Poland, however Germany had achieved a trading bloc with Poland, Finland, and the Baltics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi–...1934–41)#Mid-1930s_deterioration_of_relations (useful graphic) so not impossible that they keep (or try to keep) the countries other than Poland out of the deal?

have always speculated about deal for division of Romania in M-R Pact as Poland and Romania had defense pact, while with hindsight the Romanian Bridgehead did not amount to much it might not have seemed so at the time and so they may have wished to deal with Romania also.
 
What if the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact had given the Nazis all of Poland and the Baltic States. Stalin's aim would be to not look like the aggressor and 'Liberate' Eastern Europe at a later date.

You mean if Trump had been Stalin's negotiator? Giving away everything and saying "It's a massive deal..."
 

CalBear

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You mean if Trump had been Stalin's negotiator? Giving away everything and saying "It's a massive deal..."
Paw to God, if folks don't stop trying to derail threads with current politics...

Things will be done. None will be spared.

Chat exists for a reason.
 

Cook

Banned
What if the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact had given the Nazis all of Poland and the Baltic States.

Ribbentrop was sent to Moscow knowing that an Anglo-British delegation was already there, negotiating a pact with Stalin against Hitler. In your scenario the Greatest Foreign Minister Ever goes empty handed; why would Stalin consider an empty offer from Ribbentrop over an empty offer from Sir Reginald Drax?
No, Ribbentrop has to offer something, and it has to be significant; not only was he in a silent bidding war, but he was also racing the clock.
 
What if the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact had given the Nazis all of Poland and the Baltic States. Stalin's aim would be to not look like the aggressor and 'Liberate' Eastern Europe at a later date.

I thought that pretty much the whole reason Stalin agreed to the pact is that Hitler could give him more than the Western Allies could...
 
Wouldn’t it be more plausible if they kept to the first agreement were Germany got Lithuania. Or a mod of this were Germany got all of Poland and Stalin got the Baltic states. The latter could be motivated by the British guarantee to Poland.
Either Way its quite tricky for either Leningrad or Moscow in 1941. And not too far-fetched (esp. no 1)
 
If the "pact" is just basically that Germany is going to invade a whole bunch of countries and annex them, then what is the "pact" part? That the Soviets just agree to accept this for... nothing in exchange at the time?

It seems unlikely.

Historically, the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact came out of the Soviets' attempt to play both sides against each other by negotiating a defensive agreement against Germany with England and France while negotiating an economic agreement with Germany. The Western approach stalled when Poland very wisely decided that it did not want to let Soviet troops traipse through its territory en route to invading Germany. Germany gave the USSR a better offer: rather than worry about diplomatic protocols, let's just conquer Poland and divvy it up between us.

In that context, it's hard to imagine why the Soviets would sign an "agreement" that just said Germany would do whatever it wanted in eastern Europe.
 
Well, I'm a bear (I use the special Apple iBear keyboard) so I don't really have a hand to speak of.
At the risk of derailing the thread it’s the way our mod types with a straight face about being a sentient animal that makes life so special on this board.
 
Back on topic, I’m not seeing why Stalin would agree to this. He would want an advantage or gain of some kind. Maybe time to prepare for war but the territory issue puts the Soviets in a very weak position.
 
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