WI: Modern Crimson Skies

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by terranova210486, Nov 2, 2014.

  1. Mr_ Bondoc Member

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    So what are some events that should take place in the ATL, especially considering the anarchic nature of countries across the globe. If anything, the more insane and anarchic, the better.
     
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  2. scottrich Well-Known Member

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    Russian Civil War with a resurgent monarchy-DNA finds multiple heirs.

    The Tomb of Ghengis ka-Khan is found. A great collection of books and scrolls redefines our histories and religions.

    Marilyn Monroe faked her death and she killed JFK.
     
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  3. Mr_ Bondoc Member

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    I like them!!

    Here are a few more PODs to flag that the ATL can get stranger:

    2017: Milo Yiannopolous launches of right-wing based bombings against Berkeley, California, aimed at building support for the Trump control of the NAFTO/ NAU,...

    2017: Earth is bombarded by a "cosmic ray" phenomenon, damaging major portions of the global communications infrastructure,...

    2018: President Trump claims Mexican guerillas are responsible for violence from California to Deseret to Texas fueling civil unrest across the region,...

    2018: Mutated species of spiders are reported in South Carolina, West Virginia, Tennessee and Mississippi, triggering panic across the Confederate States of America,...
     
  4. scottrich Well-Known Member

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    Just read the whole timeline-a lot of work to make it more coherent.

    Some notes-

    Keeping with the original game timeline theme one way to organise this is Crimson Skies-the air piracy game, Bloody Ground-the land war game, Sanguine Seas-the naval piracy/privateer game, and I need a term for the Space Race/Cis-Lunar wars.

    Earth is quarantined by a Alien Confederation Of Worlds(600 and growing) that has a system of rating civilisations. We are too violent and our tech is too advanced for our culture/society. We can achieve low orbit but anything higher and the Q-Sats activate and destroy any further incursion into space.
    The various UFO's are rogue ships sent by various corporations to 'poach' items for market opportunity. The cattle mutilations are for rare tissue/bone/organs that can be used for anything from healing to aphrodisiacs. Abductions are illegal compatibility market testings. The various slimes/jellies/goop deposits are residue from conducting their inertial drive engine purges. This always explains why all the UFO's and Aliens look different when reported.
    There is automated Alien base on the Moon, a 'blue' area due to it's force field. It commands, coordinates and maintains the quarantine. There are two denizens-Gort a AI Warbot and Klaatu, a a convicted felon in cryo that 'volunteered' for this duty.

    The Alien threat is kept classified by the governments of the Earth. Section M is a Interpol-type organisation that monitors and intervenes. All Alien Tech that is captured is shared with cooperating nations. This will allow the Hughes-Goddard-Zarkov scramjet/ion 'Sparky Bit' engine to be developed that will get to the Moon and beyond.

    more later.
     
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  5. scottrich Well-Known Member

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    More notes-

    What would the evolution of weaponry look like? I reccomend everyone watch Forgotten Weapons on youtube, the host gets into some interesting history. I don't think assault rifles would develop. The pistol/smg/auto carbine/battle rifle series would be diversified and eclectic. A huge plethora of calibers and styles would be available.
     
  6. Mr_ Bondoc Member

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    One idea that I would posit would be to have the aliens taking over a portion of the globe, and transforming a group would be an interesting development. With the anarchic nature of the ATL, imagine a wild card such as East is West (Image Comics), or Annihilation or the Belisarius series by Eric Flint & David Drake appearing on the scene...
     
  7. Mr_ Bondoc Member

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    Here are a few PODs to flag that the world is very different, especially the Southern Hemisphere:

    1948: Rastafarian Honorable Prince Emmanuel proclaims the political unification of the African continent,...

    1954: Rastafarian Prince Emmanuel as Ras Boanerges welcome African Diaspora refugees to the continent at Lagos, ....

    1955: Mamie Richardson is elected as representative of the African-American community in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, sparking international attention,...

    1982: Toronto Conference; Rastafarian leaders proclaim the return of African-American communities to the Africa,...

    1987: "Earthstrong" (Marcis Garvey's birthday) is celebrated throughout Africa, signifying its political unity,....

    2014: Rastafari rallies are held in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia and Pinnacle, Jamaica, fueling the religious movement on a worldwide basis,....

    2014: Rastafari missionaries march in London, England, protesting the human rights abuses of the English government,...
     
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  8. RanulfC Well-Known Member

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    Scottrish wrote:
    “Silent Death” oh wait, that one has been used already :)

    Agree it’s some good stuff.

    Depends I suppose as it’s actually more logical than having massive amounts of semi-auto “battle rifles” since mass warfare will be less prevalent. The force multiplier of the automatic rifle of some type is by the end of WWI quite obvious and it was far more “cultural” inertia that hindered inter-war development. With smaller and more contentious nations, (but as per background far less risk of a ‘serious’ war due to the same factors) having more ‘firepower’ in the individuals hand is going to make more sense. And with that the desirability of a 'mid-range' cartridge comes to the fore as per OTL.

    Actually I’d argue the other outcome since having vast number of different calibers is actually much harder to support. The reasons to ‘standardize’ are still there as is the desire to be able to use your enemies weapons and ammo if it comes to that. From a purely selfish point of view, (that of the ammo and weapons makers) you want to be able to sell to as many customers as possible if only to give those same customers a really GOOD reason not to use them on you.

    Terranova210486 wrote:
    Depends on how you define ‘biorfuels’ I’d suppose. Keep in mind alcohol is in fact a ‘biofuel’ and would be widely used no matter if a state/area is ‘dry’ or not. At time goes on ‘bio-mass’ production will likely be pretty high. Who’d use it more? The People’s Collective would be both a user and exporter probably competing directly with the Lone Star Republic and California in fuel production but Colorado and Alaska also produces oil as does New Mexico, (Airexo) and North Dekota, (Lakota) though a lot of it may take more advanced technology to fully exploit. (You’re not doing the North Slope oil fields with anything short of 1960’s level of technology)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_in_the_United_States

    Off-shore oil is going to be even more of a stretch. And speaking of, how about “Oil Pirates”?

    Frank Herbert’s “The Dragon in the Sea” has (admittedly “official” naval forces but) “pirates” tapping and stealing deep ocean oil sites with pirate submarines and counter-pirate forces playing hide-and-seek under the sea…

    Your big problem with biofuels is they tend to have less energy than hydrocarbon distillates. On the converse side once you get into very high octane aviation fuels made from oil you’re actually mixing in various bio-ethanol based chemicals as well so it may be a wash in short order.

    And keep in the US breaks up prior to OTL’s electrification and other ‘grid’ building programs which would tend to preclude large scale developments moving out into suburban areas. So more and more of what we today take as ‘basic’ services are less and less likely to develop in an similar manner. There may be large ‘CoOp’s’ for things like communications, medical and fire but it is unlikely they will bridge great distances or develop strong ‘international’ (inside the US) networks until much later. No national electric, or telephone grid to build an “internet” on. So it is more likely IF someone has electricity they generate it themselves, if they have ‘gas’ it’s likely methane they again generate themselves and so on. City services would on the other hand probably be MORE centralized and controlled since there would be probably more industrial zones to allow for more centralized defense and distribution of goods.

    Scottrish wrote:
    Mr_Bondoc wrote:
    As I’ve note previously “my” CSU has H.G. Well’s “Martians” lurking in the background who are supportive and supporting the continued existence of the Ottoman Empire for their own reasons. They tend to cluster around the North and South Pole’s for their own reasons as well and the fact that no one bothers them there for the most part. I blame them for the “New Flu” outbreaks though neither worked as well as they would have liked. Probably ‘worse’ in their eyes the splintering of the United States and the world tensions have NOT broken out in another World War by the early 40s and meanwhile Human technology is getting better which is also counter to their plans. They are opposed by the rather loose ‘Technocratic Alliance” which is a group of scientists, technicians, engineers and other professions who tend to set themselves above “nationalistic” boundaries and alliances towards a ‘bigger’ picture of the world. (You can guess who some of the more famous members are :) )

    The major problem with aliens visiting us is that despite our ‘technology’ level the Earth is a very dangerous place both biologically and in ‘attitude’. The “Martians” are rather keen to inhabit the Earth but for the most part it is far too hot, wet and oppressive, (out atmosphere is far too thick for it to be comfortable) but at least it’s not Venus. Which has its own race and problems mind you…

    Randy
     
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  9. Mr_ Bondoc Member

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    Here are a few PODs to help the transition to the space race:

    2000: Air pirate Ian Clarke proclaims orbital space as "Free Space", unveiling cheap orbital "hacks" in Miramar, California,...

    2009: Japanese air pirate Satoshi Nakamoto creates "creds", as a means to conduct financial transactions in orbit, without being detected by law enforcement,...

    2010: Eurasian Union raider Nikita Kuzmin launches the Russian effort to seize control of "Freespace", fueling armed conflict in orbit,...

    2011: Ross Ulbricht (a.k.a. "Dread Pirate Roberts") establishes low orbital space as a "free space" across the globe for "air pirates",...

    2013: Irish mobster Eric Eoin Marques emerges as the top leader of "Freespace", specializing in child pornography, human-trafficking and prostitution,...

    2013: Edward Snowden leaks government documents proving that the NAU/ NAFTO is incapable of controlling "Freespace", sparking international attention,..

    2014: Blake Benthall (a.k.a. "Onymous") is arrested by bounty hunters, amidst claims of selling orbital technology to various terrorist groups,....

    2015: Latvian Deniss Calovskis launches brutal attacks against "Freespace" settlements over Eurasian Union space,...
     
  10. Mr_ Bondoc Member

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    Here are some PODs to flag that the ATL has some darker events:

    1932: Standard Oil seizes control of the government of Bolivia; Royal Dutch Shell backs with mercenaries control of Argentina,...

    1953: British Petroleum (BP) backs up control of the Iranian government in Tehran, sparking international attention,...

    1965: Sir John Woodson and Sir David Stirling establish the Watchguard mercenary group to defend British interests abroad in London, England,...

    1980: Oligarch and CEO Robert Mugabe has emerged as a major supporter of corporate mercenaries in Harare, African Union (AU),...

    1985: Veolia Environment (VE) seizes control of the French water supply, triggering riots in Paris, France,...

    1994: President Fidel Ramos leads anti-corporate insurrection against water privatization efforts, sparking international attention,...

    1999: Maputo Conference; African Union (AU) leaders led by Emmerson Mnangagwa warn against economic and political investment in Europe and North America,...

    2000: Veolia Environment (VE) seizes control of the water supply in Bolivia via mercenaries,...

    2002: Anti-corporate riots erupt across California after Enron triggers a series of massive blackouts across the region,...

    2005: Oligarch and CEO Joice Mujuru of Harare, emerges as a political force to be reckoned with in the African Union (AU),...

    2011: Barcelona Riots; Suez Corporation seizes control of the water supply to Basque nation, triggering riots in the region,...
     
  11. Mr_ Bondoc Member

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    What are some events and characters that should be added to the TL for 2018? Consider that the ATL has the feel of Car Wars: Auto-Duelling and Blood Drive (SyFy)....
     
  12. Mr_ Bondoc Member

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    Consider the name "Moontrap" for the Lunar/ Orbital Wars; considering the 1989 Bruce Campbell/ Walter Koenig straight to video film.

    As for the alien quaratine of the planet, here are several.ideas:

    A) Earth is a violent wildlife game preserve, wherein the perpetual anarchy and violence is a popular selling point for either sport or entertainment (Predator/ Aliens/ Lilo & Stitch/ South Park)

    B) Earth is a "hive of villainy & scum". Consider that one of the reasons most UFO sightings take place in isolated areas and in the countryside is the fact that humans scare aliens, but also humanity is seen as being a criminal species ( We Come In Peace/Ice Pirates/ Explorers)

    C) We are a fronline of a battlefield; Earth is unknowingly between factions of a larger conflict (This Island Earth/ Star Trek/ Men in Black)

    D) The aliens are even more mercenary and devious than we are comfortable believing ( V: The Series/ Captive State/ They Live)

    E) What the aliens leave behind, whether on purpose or not, tends to muck up the environment and society in general (Monsters/ Night of the Living Dead/ District 9/ Alien Nation)

    My guess is that Earth is a combination of several of these options, with the anarchy and chaos allowing for strange things to go unnoticed (Fallout/ Resistance: Fall of Man).
     
  13. scottrich Well-Known Member

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    Plus, Humans could be used as illegal mercenaries by Stellar Corporations/Governments-a cut-off, surrounded military formation on Earth is 'rescued' by Aliens in return for doing a 'job' on another planet (Janissaries/Pournelle).

    Or it isn't humans at all. A dangerous alien race is exiled on Earth for trying to conquer the Galactic Consortium. These 'movers and shakers' are trying to use humanity to get back into the Great Game.

    Either way, I see Crimson Skies evolving into a 'Mad Men' (the TV Series) with the Civil Rights Movement, the Sexual Revolution/ERA better applied, a more dispersed manufactory/R&D/tech advanced industrial base, the Beatniks evolved into a hippie intelligensia(at the forefront of psionics and mutations) with the world being dragged into the 21st Century without countries with one foot in the past and one foot in the future.

    But that's just me.
     
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  14. thekingsguard Founder of Korsgaardianism

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    I kind of envision a direct sequel... lets say, set in 1939, to the original game's 1937... would see TTL's WW2 involve a massive North American war over the mantle (and lands) of the USA.

    My own headcanon is the next game sees the divided nations of North America - and men like Nathan Zachary caught at a crossroads.

    The political landscape of North America has shockwaves sent through it after the stunning victory of Columbia (under the not-widely recognized banner of the restored United States of America) over a coalition of Empire State and Dixie, in large part thanks to the forces of the so-called American Legion, and the military leadership "Triumvirate", of Dwight Eisenhower, George Patton and Chesty Pulley. As a result, not only do Columbia and Appalachia merge, as was the original cause of the war, but Columbia gets some significant war gains. From Dixie, they take Missouri, Virginia and North Carolina. From Empire, they take Pennsylvania and divide New Jersey... all Empire ever really cared about was New York City anyway.

    In the most dramatic shift in American borders since Texas seceded, Washington's reach extends from Philadelphia to Kansas City... and they make no secret that they desire the USA to rise once again, by the quill or the sword.

    Meanwhile, the Industrial States of America have outright allied with Germany (and thier uber Nazis, Die Spinne), and are courting Dixie to do the same. The People's Collective have joined Comintern, while others, such as New England and Louisiana have joined the Allies. Others, such as California which is looking toward Asia and it's booming trans-Pacific trade, and Texas, which is... well, Texas... are proudly remaining feircly independent, and view the collapse of the USA as a good thing, and the upcoming war as a time to profit from. Others still, such as Deseret and Pacifica, are just hoping not to be caught in the crossfire.

    Against all this, the personalities that have loomed so large over the divided American nations for the past decade are taking sides as they see their stars dim and the winds shift. Johnathan "Genghis" Kahn, the bloody ace of the ISA, when facing Chicago's newfound coziness with Berlin, had rediscovered something he'd long ago tried to bury - his conscience. Aaron "Easter" Whittaker, now one of the heroes of the revolution of the Communist bloc, will not see himself and the black man returned to the "separate but equal" of the former USA or the far worse planned by the fascists, not without one hell of a fight. Paladin Blake is selling weapons, planes and sending pilots in theaters as far as the Australian Civil War and the Suez Canal Zone. "Marshall" Bill Redman is seen shaking hands with Hermann Goring while he was on a goodwill tour in Dixie.

    For Nathan Zachary and his Fortune Hunters however, they're just looking for a few more big scores while the getting is good... yet they may find themselves with the ability to decide the fate and future of millions of North Americans.

    The Golden Age of Air Piracy and the American Anarchy is coming to a close... but it's going to have one hell of a finale.

    Have that be the intro to the first of a trilogy of Crimson Skies games set in a North America over the course of a WWII analogue. Fictional and realife characters mingle, nations rise and fall, and your choices and actions... and whom you side with - will choose the fate of North America by the end of the third game. Think Fallout New Vegas, but spread out over three games.
     
  15. terranova210486 Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to see that. Have you considered writing it up for AH.com?
     
  16. scottrich Well-Known Member

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    Have that be the intro to the first of a trilogy of Crimson Skies games set in a North America over the course of a WWII analogue. Fictional and realife characters mingle, nations rise and fall, and your choices and actions... and whom you side with - will choose the fate of North America by the end of the third game. Think Fallout New Vegas, but spread out over three games.[/QUOTE]


    I've played several Second American Civil War games. Keep in mind the transport systems, manufactories and resources. There are no Interstates, trade is by rail, river and air. In the thirties the French just invented the half track vehicle, armored trains will be needed and mobile forces will be 'moto-cavalry'. Check 'Forgotten Weapons' on youtube for alternate firearms of the period. Take a good look at USA's topography-military ops won't be easy and those armored trains, air support and riverine flotillas will be crucial to get anywhere.
     
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  17. thekingsguard Founder of Korsgaardianism

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    Possibly... I wonder if that would preclude the ability to pitch anything for it elsewhere.


    I've played several Second American Civil War games. Keep in mind the transport systems, manufactories and resources. There are no Interstates, trade is by rail, river and air. In the thirties the French just invented the half track vehicle, armored trains will be needed and mobile forces will be 'moto-cavalry'. Check 'Forgotten Weapons' on youtube for alternate firearms of the period. Take a good look at USA's topography-military ops won't be easy and those armored trains, air support and riverine flotillas will be crucial to get anywhere.[/QUOTE]

    One of the signatures of Crimson Skies is he who rules the skies rules.

    It was fun in my scenario to imagine Patton leading an airfleet that could be decrobed as "deiselpunk gunships". Basically tanks with wings.
     
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  18. RanulfC Well-Known Member

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    Mr_Bondoc wrote:
    That’s actually on purpose and the ‘feel’ they were going for:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_Wars

    It’s a variation on the “punk” genre involving “transitional” time where major changes and/or upheavals are going on in the background while those involved in the story are “simply” trying to mostly just get on with their lives. It requires a disrupted but not always dystopian or ‘destructive’ background with “islands” of stability and normality which are equally supportive, stifling, comforting and reviled by those same “punks”. (And yes the “Golden Age of Piracy” fits and defines the “setting” here)

    “Deep” plans and conspiracies abound of which the ‘characters’ are only vaguely aware or have only limited pieces are the norm. There are few “trustworthy” authority figures with a majority being your ‘friend’ only as long as it suits their needs, along with seemingly impossible enemies that can’t be taken “head-on” and only engaged lightly and able only to win ‘fleeting’ but clear victories are what keep things running.

    Something to keep in mind is that the situation is dynamic AND unstable and things will change towards a more static and stable situation. The “punk” era’s don’t last more than a decade or two before they settle as the punks” age and find places/times to settle. They may still be “rebels” and “dreamers” but less willing to put it all on the line at any given moment for “prize” or “cause”. Major conflicts or significant changes to the overall background also will shift the dynamics away from supporting such an era. A “WW-II” analog, alien invasion or “peace” breaking out and nations/factions allying or taking sides will tend to reduce and restrict the opportunities characters will have and the influence they will wield as both shrink for ‘freebooters’ and those not willing to commit to a cause with all they have.

    One of the things I loved about CS was divided-America while having supposed ‘near-analogs’ of European nations, (Columbia as a less effective Switzerland, the ISA as neo-Nazi’s, and the People’s Collective as Stalin’s Russia, etc) in truth, (and in game) they may ally with some of the factions on a short term basis but they are in the end fundamentally incompatible and will go their own, unique way rapidly.

    Randy
     
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  19. terranova210486 Well-Known Member

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    How do you think the Native American nations would have evolved by the 21st century?
     
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  20. scottrich Well-Known Member

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    More martial. They control their territories-almost independent. If still part of the US, they would have all the benefits of the Constitution without the obligations. Larger cultural resurgance with practical modernisation. They control resources on their land, casinos and theme parks which are popular. Their police would rival Texas Rangers.
     
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