WI: Modern Crimson Skies

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by terranova210486, Nov 2, 2014.

  1. terranova210486 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    A few more ideas:

    Dacre Montgomery: An Australian Air Force pilot currently in Persia. Rumoured to have been romantically linked with Naomi Scott.

    Scarlett Johansson: Empire State privateer with her own squadron and airship named the Black Widow.

    Eliza Taylor and Alycia Debnam-Carey: A pair of Australian privateers who are on loan to the Nation of Hollywood/California. Rumours of the two of them being romantically linked are still yet to be confirmed.

    Ashton Kutcher: A drug lord who was gunned down while resisting arrest in 2005.

    George Clooney: Appalachian war hero who fought against Dixie in a border skirmish, taking out twelve enemy planes.

    Tom Cruise: Air pirate who was shot down in 2002.

    Robert De Niro: Current President of the Empire State, and a staunch political enemy of Donald Trump.
     
  2. Mr_ Bondoc Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2004
    Dacre Montgomery: An Australian Air Force pilot currently in Persia. Rumoured to have been romantically linked with Naomi Scott. Although he was also linked to the deaths of several pilots during a wedding in Perth. He was most recently deployed to Hawkins, Indiana in the disputed Western Territories, fueling tensions with the People's Collective and the Industrial States of America,....

    Scarlett Johansson: Empire State privateer with her own squadron and airship named the "Black Widow". She has been a major intelligence asset since 1994, and has been recognized as a British asset since c. 2003. In 2012, she has been rumored as a possible intelligence asset linked to Barack Obama of the African Union. In 2005, she revealed a series of illegal cloning experiments occurring in Nevada, outside the Republic of Vice. In 2016, Johansson was considered a rogue asset after an action aimed at halting the Trump regime from coming to power. Sh has also was the subject of illegal cybernetic experiments by the Empire of Japan.

    Eliza Taylor and Alycia Debnam-Carey: A pair of Australian privateers who are on loan to the Nation of Hollywood/California. Rumours of the two of them being romantically linked are still yet to be confirmed. Rumors concern possible illegal human experiments since 2014, under Australian scientist Joshua Rothenberg. Further intelligence reports link the couple to Project A.L.I.C.E., an artificial intelligence (AI) system linked to the Eurasian Union agent Milla Jovovich.

    Ashton Kutcher of Cedar Rapids, Iowa, a drug lord who was gunned down while resisting arrest in 2005. His apparent survival is apparently based on his "recreational" studies into the"Psychohistory Equation" starting in c. 2004. Some have attributed his deadly lifestyle to his ruthless "pranks" against rivals and opponents since 2003. Currently Kutcher is considered the "Opiate Kingpin of the Midwest", taking advantage of the Industrial States of America and People's Collective,....

    George Clooney (a.k.a. "Warlord of Appalachia") Appalachian war hero who fought against Dixie in a border skirmish, taking out twelve enemy planes. In 2001, with his team, dubbed "Section 8", the soldier has been considered one of the major players of North American politics. Clooney has been imprisoned on several occasions including in 1998, 2000, and 2001. Since 2011, there have been efforts to have Clooney named as President of NAFTO/NAU. These voices have only magnified since the takeover of Donald Trump in 2016.

    Thomas C. Mapother IV (a.k.a. Tom Cruise): Considered one of the "Unluckiest" or "Luckiest" Air pirates, depending on who is asked or telling the story, who was reportedly shot down in 1986, 2002, and 2017. In 1986, Mapother was reportedly shot down over Miramar, California, but was soon reported on a transport cargo plane out of Hong Kong carrying illegal drugs through "rubber dog sh**" Since 1996, Mapother has reportedly been linked to the several intelligence agencies, including several of the former United States, and the central NAFTO/NAU intelligence agencies. In 2008, Mapother was linked to several conspiracies regarding "Psychohistory Equations"....

    Robert De Niro,Current President of the Empire State, and a staunch political enemy of Donald Trump, has been at the center of political power in the Empire State since 1974. In 1987, De Niro came to power, unifying many of the crime syndicates across the Atlantic Seaboard. In 1997, De Niro was reportedly behind efforts to coverup political scandals within the NAFTO/NAU, earning the reputation of "knowing where all the bodies are buried". In 1999, rumors were wrongly spread that De Niro had an emotional and mental breakdown, which seemed to be substantiated by the rise of James Gandolfini. But as early as 2000, reports that De Niro had a complex intelligence syndicate behind him were quietly confirmed.
     
    terranova210486 likes this.
  3. terranova210486 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    Any ideas how Star Wars actors from Mark Hamill to Daisy Ridley would fit ITTL?
     
  4. terranova210486 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    So, anyone want to keep this thread alive?
     
  5. scottrich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Location:
    utica, ny USA
    (Had a stroke last August-doing better now.)-Mark Hamill, 3-time winner of the Grand Canyon Aerial Relay Race stated "I will fly no more forever." after reports of his nephew committing atrocities in Mexico.
     
    terranova210486 likes this.
  6. terranova210486 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    What about Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher and the rest of the Star Wars cast?
     
  7. Mr_ Bondoc Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2004
    Consider they are all in roughly different areas. Harrison Ford is Wyoming. Mark Hammill and Carrie Fisher are in California, Alec Guiness is in Great Britain,....
     
    terranova210486 likes this.
  8. terranova210486 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    Would there be a lot of movies similar to Top Gun?
     
  9. terranova210486 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    Anyone want to do a 2018 map of CS North America?
     
  10. RanulfC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2014
    Depends on what you mean by "similar" as the general 'gist' of the movie was used quite often OTL and only the use of 'modern' aircraft and support was any different. (For that matter the French "Jet Fighter" of 2005 can be said to have far more impressive visuals if a weaker 'story') I'd actually think that there would be far less 'special' about a "Top Gun" movie TTL unless if took the unusual turn of focusing not on the aircraft or the pilots but the people BEHIND them...

    It would really depend on 'which' CS timeline we're talking about since it's been pretty scatter-so far. I'm finding it rather difficult to make an accurate map of 1937 CS North America in paint or something... What do people usually use to make maps with anyway?

    Really? Probably none of them exist in this time line. Certainly not as we know them if they do.

    While we're on the subject, going back and re-reading a lot of the 'canon' time-line information I've come to realize the actual "Point-Of-Departure" per the general AHdotCom guidelines is no where near the 1920s but has to have happened prior to the end of WWI at least if not earlier. Think about it. The Russian Civil War was NOT a clear cut "Red" victory and in fact a good portion of the "White" Russian military and Government 'escaped' to Alaska and continues to fight in Siberia and Kamchatka to the mid/late-30s. This means that at no point is the USSR 'secure' enough to get around to 'exporting-the-revolution' which has loads of butterflies to Socialist/Communist movements around the globe. Even assuming the TTL "Washington Navel Treaty" is at all similar, (doubtful since Isolationism and resistance to Federal power is already increasing) it's doubtful that the stipulation of the dropping of the Anglo-Japanese Alliance is going to happen so Japanese and English 'interests' will remain more aligned and more a check on Japanese ambition. With US "interest" retreating from Asia and the Pacific, (to including pretty much 'giving up' both Alaska and Hawaii, not to mention Guam, Wake, the Philippines, etc)) Japan is going to focus more on China and keep British 'interests' in mind while doing so. "Fascism" is going to have many more 'flavors' than OTL as it will have different outcomes since Germany will be less influential to it than the founder (Italy) which took a backseat OTL. As I noted before the TTL-WWII analog is vastly more likely to be a English/French beat-down than anything else and 'colonialism' TTL is going to be vastly worse to allow both sides to 'pay' for the build up and knock-down-drag-out fight that will ensue.

    Frankly a divided US, unable and unwilling to come to the 'aid' of either side is STILL going to come out ahead when the dust settles.

    Randy
     
    terranova210486 likes this.
  11. RanulfC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2014
    As a "side-ish" note one of the reasons I've not done a TL of my own yet, (there's that word again :) ) is the amount of research and extrapolation that's needed to get plausible results. Another is I dislike working in a 'vacuum' and having said that I'm rather flaky enough collaboration with me is.. difficult for people. Having to work within the 'constraints' of an established background is of course even more of a pain but fascinating as well. Which is why this is all so much fun, right? ;)

    Crimson Skies if very much history and setting I enjoy, and hate, and love, and loath, and.. well you probably get the picture :)

    Oddly enough the longer I toy with the setting the more slipshod and random the 'background' obviously becomes, (go figure it was pretty much literally done 'after-hours' by people who were primarily interested in the 'setting' not the actual 'background' or game mechanics) yet at the same time also obviously fascinating and intriguing and offering so much potential. Unlike so many 'broken-US' settings the world of CS in general is a much more 'benign' place with the conflicts between the various remnants being very much in the background for obvious and logical reasons. Yet for that to happen it requires that the rest of the world either ignores the broken-US or in general has 'other' issues to occupy itself with while still maintaining a trade and diplomatic relation with the various nations.

    And then there are the questions that, (obviously) never got answered or often even asked because, (again) it was a 'game' project done on the side.

    Take Columbia for example. (http://firedrake.org/roger/csarchive/universe/states/columbia.htm)

    Columbia is arguably the ex-US Capital and 'most' of the more 'Patriotic' East Coast areas but it has also become a 'neutral' center for World as well as ex-US nations. The League of Nations has it's seat there and it's neutrality makes it a global City enjoying equal parts diplomacy and espionage. But keep in mind it also has several institutions that with the break up of the Old US now have moved from a 'national' to 'international' stage with all that implies toward their expansion and influence. The Smithsonian Institution went through some rough times initially but support for its mission and purpose would come from around the 'nation' and globe to preserve and eventually expand its faculties and activities. Combining Columbia's charge of 'neutrality' and its own original charge "for the increase and diffusion of knowledge," applied to research and the preservation and dissemination of knowledge would soon see it attracting scientists, researchers of all stripes. Both to contribute and to learn. Further South the Langley Aeronautical Research Institute, formed during the turmoil leading up to the US entry into the Great War to help American Aviation stay abreast of advances and research in Aviation, had been since its inception at the forefront of Aviation research and the new situation of the US and the world required that effort even more. Today it would be a gathering place for world wide aeronautical research and development as well as sorting and processing establishment ensuring that knowledge is disseminated in the manner of its charge to "supervise and direct the scientific study of the problems of flight with a view to their practical solution" available from and to all in need. The then 'national' now International Academies of Science, Engineering, and Medicine and the associated world renown Academies Press ensure the gathering, processing, and publication of knowledge in all areas of science, engineering and medicine as well as administering the various educational and research campus' scattered around Columbia and the knowledge and teachings they generate. In recent decades international concerns for the environment, the oceans and space have manifested in the creation of subsidiary Academies and Institutes dedicated to those subjects as well.

    In many, if not most, ways the history of the United States prior to its demise and its subsequent history being on display and as an example of the danger of 'hyper-partisanship' and focus on "differences" rather than "similarity" has effected today's world vastly more than Columbia being the 'simple' Capital of the old United States would have ever done. Though the League of Nations was initially, (and somewhat unrealistically and ideally), dedicated to the general prevention of conflict, history has shown that large scale general conflict such as seen in the Great War and the subsequent World War, (which sprang from its original unresolved issues), comes about when nations fail or refuse to understand or communicate with each other. Part of that process it is now seen can and often will be 'conflict' on a smaller more confined scale where as part of the process nations will come to feel each other out in order to judge and understand both intent and commitment to an issue. The old United States fought its devastating "Civil War" over an old issues that its founders were well aware of but refused to deal with and those issues were significantly "important" both tear the nation apart and set brother against brother in bloody conflict. Four years and thousands of lives later the "issues" fundamentally still remained despite the utter defeat and destruction of one side in the conflict.

    Less than 70 years later those unresolved issues would again cause the Nation of the United States of America to tear itself apart. But unlike previously the importance of the various 'issues' was not such that the leaders or populations of the new American Nations felt the need to spend huge amounts of treasure and blood to enforce. Instead they engaged in limited conflict and resolved most disputes through arbitration or negotiations. issues were solved on a smaller, more local and controlled level allowing better compromise and longer term satisfaction with the outcome. Instead of throwing their new nations economies and societies into chaos by going to war over matters between these new nations the leaders and populations instead moved to embrace their similarities and offer up their differences in support of rather than conflict with each other. The People's Collective's farmers still needed markets for their crops and the Industrial States of America needed markets for their products and they both needed Appalachian coal and iron so despite having differences over everything from drinking Alcohol to forms of government and the application of Law and Order derived thereof these new nations decided to focus on the things they did agree on instead of what divided them initially and they came to Columbia to make those agreements. And Columbia invited the League of Nations into its newly empty public buildings to help foster this kind of collaboration on a world wide scale. In some cases this worked as shown by the example of the reconciliation of the Empire of Nippon and the Greater Chinese Union. Sadly there remained vast issues left over from as far back as the 17th century that were too vast and unresolved to fade quietly away and the League's (and Columbia's) greatest failure came when the great Empires of Europe, French and British, fell to global war in the mid-1940s. This conflict would eventually pull in most of the major remaining European and Asian powers such as the Warsaw Pact, the Soviet Union, Kingdom of Greece, Anatolian league into direct conflict with most other nation-states eventually participating in at least a supporting role if not a direct combatant at some level. Only the nations of North America along with some Caribbean, Pacific and South American remaining strictly neutral in the conflict. It was this strict neutrality, (often militarily enforced by various and coalitions of nations) and the neutral sanctuary of Columbia that was eventually instrumental in bringing the exhausted and devastated combatants to the negotiating table eight years and millions of lives later. Even still with 'peace' declared the slow and inevitable disintegration of the various "empires" would last another two decades and millions of more lives in the process.

    Scholars today argue, that the process of accretion that built up the 'empires' and 'nations' of the 17th through early 20th century were as inevitable as their decline as 'nations' sought 'safety' by being larger and more powerful than any supposed enemy. But that 'safety' and the false feeling of security it engendered came at the price of suppression of vastly different cultures and populations with the built in delays in communications and decision making caused actual resolution or even identification of problems and conflicts to be so broadly and usually incorrectly understood that resolution was impossible and only 'simple' and generic solutions could be applied lest further problems/conflicts be caused among segments of the 'nations' population. Nations the size of the old United States politically and socially had to reduce complex issues and conflicts to 'simple' generally false and jingoistic statements using keywords and concepts aimed at evoking certain responses from general groups of people. More often than not what was presented to one 'group' differed in both intent and content from another in order to achieve a 'consensus' that the political or private power brokers wished to achieve and then 'solutions' based on that 'consensus' would be installed allowing those in power to claim a 'solution' had been found when in fact the original problem was only hidden. "Power Blocks" or "Parties" were arranged around these 'data-sets' and 'simple' solution and played of against each other to give the impression that national populations could 'choose' solutions based on these parties while in reality actual decisions and policy was made regardless of the peoples will.

    In the end it was one of the 'youngest' nations of the 20th Century that saw through this ancient and static system and chose to embrace a different path of smaller and more flexible 'nations' capable of being both independent and interdependent on which our current world is based. "Parties" still exist and arguably, like conflict itself, will continue to exist as long as humans are human enough to find it more comfortable to 'group' with those of similar opinion and outlook but in today's world where places like Columbia exist where discussion and conflicts of words can take the place of war and destruction and where people can freely express and exchange knowledge then we can truly look forward to the 21 Century and beyond with hope and optimism.

    -Excerpt from a presentation by visiting Academician Sir Eric Idle at the Smithsonian Institution, Columbia North America during the League of Nations Millennial Celebration, August 2000CE
     
    Mr_ Bondoc and terranova210486 like this.
  12. RanulfC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2014
    On the subject of the "actual" POD to produce a CS universe/timeline I recalled a discussion on 'earlier' and more pronounced LTA development which (in context) could easily lead to more advanced and common LTA flight which along with a somewhat 'stunted' early HTA development might lead to 'reversal' of the roles of France and Germany in those matters. (https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...s-and-german-aeroplanes.432829/#post-16260091) France actually DID have a heavier and more 'intense' LTA development period but was soon overshadowed by German development. Keeping in mind that something like this could push the main POD back before 1900, (and thus out of this forum :) ) additional factors could have been involved which 'delayed' HTA development prior to and somewhat during the Great War, (frankly US aeronautical development WAS stalled due to the Wright/Curtis legal feud and government disinterest overseas coupled with some more forceful and frankly 'bad' legal decisions could have exported that overseas) leading to a more 'stable' and 'settled' LTA system and technology that while the HTA airplane readily surpass it for short range and time sensitive use, having already been 'established' it takes that much longer for HTA to encroach into the 'traditional' LTA market and usage.

    More directly once the 'shackles' have been removed from aeronautical progression but leaving an existing 'tradition' of LTA transport the general 'focus' would likely shift from OTL's experience. Consider how, despite major advances in WWI OTL 'aviation' was very susceptible to accidents and disasters in common usage which by comparison with a more established LTA system/technology in an ATL could easily see less development on long-range, heavy HTA technology.

    Additionally it has been argued that aviation development OTL was somewhat impeded post-WWI by the centralization and bureaucracy adopted by most post-war nations in regards to aviation research and development. Imagine if the US had followed the European path initially by the establishment of a, (call it) Department of Aviation, (yes DoA for a reason :) ) for both Civil and Military aviation. (Actually a step beyond what Billy Mitchel was pushing for but I could see a logic for 'kicking' him upstairs and moving Naval and Army aviation from under the direct control of the military departments. Rolling "Civil" aviation into the mix would make sense) By having separate, (but equal, Wilson is involved after all :) ) Bureaus for the various segments would of course NOT help all that much with the inter-service rivalry but it might and having more coordination in efforts and funding will of course have some benefits but overall it will obviously restrict and force research and development along certain paths.

    Randy
     
    Mr_ Bondoc and terranova210486 like this.
  13. terranova210486 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    Do you think they’d use biofuels for the airplanes by now?
     
  14. Mr_ Bondoc Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2004
    Probably, or they would be threatened by the forces of the Lone Star Republic. Definitely throw in some PODs into the mix...
     
    terranova210486 likes this.
  15. terranova210486 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    Which nation would make the most use of biofuels? Dixie or the People's Collective?
     
  16. Mr_ Bondoc Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2004
    Probably Dixie due to the fact that crops that process ethanol are usually are grown in the region. Also consider California as having the capacity to make a similar development in technology....
     
    terranova210486 likes this.
  17. Mr_ Bondoc Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2004
    All things considered, we have a lot of celebrities in the mix, and a pretty comprehensive timeline. What do people think has happened in the timeline in the past 3 years (2016-2018)? If anything, we have a President Trump attempting to "restore the American Empire". The idea is that like Crimson Skies the game, the diesel punk/cyberpunk analogue feel to things should be apparent. No idea is too outrageous for the TL...
     
    terranova210486 likes this.
  18. terranova210486 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    I agree. Does anyone want to make a Crimson Skies TL?
     
    Mr_ Bondoc likes this.
  19. Mr_ Bondoc Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2004
    Here are some celebrities that I was wondering if people could come up with some twists on. The weirder, the betteru:

    * Stormy Daniels

    * Michael Avenatti

    * Alexandria Occasio-Castro

    * Peter Dinklage

    * Colin Kaepernick

    * Elle Fanning

    * Logan Paul

    * Alex Jones
     
    terranova210486 likes this.
  20. Mr_ Bondoc Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2004
    Here are a few PODs to flag that the world is still pretty messed up:

    2016: Deseret President Mitt Romney and Vice-President John Huntsman voice their opposition to the plans for the "New American Empire" by Donald Trump, fueling tensions across the continent,...

    2016: Bernard Sanders of Burlington, Vermont calls for New England Confederation to oppose the "New American Empire" by Donald Trump,...

    2017: Puerto Rico government collapses; Trump orders NAFTO/ NAU forces to deploy to the island as a "police action", sparking international attention,...

    2017: San Francisco Mayor Edwin Lee is assassinated in a series of bombings by anarchist Ryan Chamberlain; Donald Trump uses the bombings to further his imperial aims,...

    2017: Race riots erupt in Charlottesville, South Carolina, highlighting the major racial and sectarian divides across the continent,...
     
    terranova210486 likes this.