WI: Mithridates wins First Mithridatic War

Suppose that Mithridates VI of Pontus is able to defeat Rome in the First Mithridatic War and push them out of Greece and Asia. Can he keep Rome out and keep his empire together in the long term? Will it fall apart when he dies or will his successors, assuming they're able enough, be able to keep it going, and if it's the latter what might that empire look like? And what about Rome? Will Sertorius and Spartacus be more successful? Is the defeat good or bad for the survival of the Roman Republic? What's the effect on the careers of Pompey et al?
 
Well if he wins the first Mithradatic War, that completely alters the civil war, and certainly changes things with Spartacus. Spartacus was likely a soldier under Mithradates who surrendered and was captured in one of his defeats. So Spartacus won't be a gladiator in Capua, but rather, perhaps an officer in the Pontic army. Though that doesn't necessarily butterfly another slave revolt.

As for the changes in the civil war, if Mithradates defeats Sulla, well, Sulla's done for obviously in the civil war, so there isn't a Sertorian rebellion to have more success.
 
Alright, I guess I got my dates mixed up. What about the rest of it, though? Will the Mithridatic Empire survive?
 
Alright, I guess I got my dates mixed up. What about the rest of it, though? Will the Mithridatic Empire survive?

The problem is that he was fighting Sulla, who was somewhat brilliant. If Sulla gets pushed back then at some point he returns to Rome, takes it over properly, regroups and then has another go.
 
The problem is that he was fighting Sulla, who was somewhat brilliant. If Sulla gets pushed back then at some point he returns to Rome, takes it over properly, regroups and then has another go.
Sulla had to win his battles against Mithradates. Marius and Cinna had taken over Rome in his absence, and although Sulla was popular amongst many elite Romans, a Sulla who has failed to defeat the greatest threat from the East in decades is likely to find less support than one who has decisively defeated Mithradates.

I'd say the Roman Republic was in pretty poor shape anyway by this point. With both Sulla and Marius' violent takeovers of Rome, a dangerous precedent had been set and to me it seems like it is only a matter of time before one strongman becomes stronger than the rest and seizes total power in Rome, though it may look very different to the Principate. The Roman economy will likely be very different without the East as a looting point/tax base.

As for Pontus, it all depends on what Mithradates wants to do next. Mithradates II of Parthia had provided a lot of support to Mithradates in an attempt to counter the Romans, and it is quite likely that he was surprised by the swift advance of the Pontic army. However, when Mithradates II died, Parthia was beset by political troubles that allowed Tigranes of Armenia to pursue a more independent policy and which left Mithradates largely on his own. I could see Parthia putting more pressure on Pontus until the death of Mithradates II at which case Mithradates may well be strong enough to assert dominance over his son-in-law Tigranes in the same way he did with places such as Cappadocia in OTL.

I'd also like to note that I'm currently in the research stages of my own TL about a Pontic victory in the First Mithradatic War (based on one I did a few years back) so anyone interested in the scenario should really watch this space.
 
I just wonder how Mithridates could have won this first war.

His army just was not at the level at this moment. He had a better chance in the second war, when Sulla's legate Murena started a new war when the civil war was raging again in Italy.

If however he ever did win, then the roman empire has no other solution than reconquering Greece and Asia or going broke.

The West could hardly stand as it as without the huge financial ressources it drained from Asia. That's why it always tried to reconquer the East.

When the West definitely lost control of the East, it broke apart.
 
Sulla had to win his battles against Mithradates. Marius and Cinna had taken over Rome in his absence, and although Sulla was popular amongst many elite Romans, a Sulla who has failed to defeat the greatest threat from the East in decades is likely to find less support than one who has decisively defeated Mithradates.

I'd say the Roman Republic was in pretty poor shape anyway by this point. With both Sulla and Marius' violent takeovers of Rome, a dangerous precedent had been set and to me it seems like it is only a matter of time before one strongman becomes stronger than the rest and seizes total power in Rome, though it may look very different to the Principate. The Roman economy will likely be very different without the East as a looting point/tax base.

As for Pontus, it all depends on what Mithradates wants to do next. Mithradates II of Parthia had provided a lot of support to Mithradates in an attempt to counter the Romans, and it is quite likely that he was surprised by the swift advance of the Pontic army. However, when Mithradates II died, Parthia was beset by political troubles that allowed Tigranes of Armenia to pursue a more independent policy and which left Mithradates largely on his own. I could see Parthia putting more pressure on Pontus until the death of Mithradates II at which case Mithradates may well be strong enough to assert dominance over his son-in-law Tigranes in the same way he did with places such as Cappadocia in OTL.

I'd also like to note that I'm currently in the research stages of my own TL about a Pontic victory in the First Mithradatic War (based on one I did a few years back) so anyone interested in the scenario should really watch this space.
Marius will be dead shortly. Cinna's support will run out about as fast as Sulla's, and anyway he never showed any inclination to usurp the Republic. After those two are gone...things basically calm down. The murders of Marius' men are highly exaggerated in scope and, anyway, it was Cinna and Sertorius who put an end to it by killing Marius' men doing the killing.
 
Marius will be dead shortly. Cinna's support will run out about as fast as Sulla's, and anyway he never showed any inclination to usurp the Republic. After those two are gone...things basically calm down. The murders of Marius' men are highly exaggerated in scope and, anyway, it was Cinna and Sertorius who put an end to it by killing Marius' men doing the killing.
You really think there was a chance that Rome could have calmed down? I'm afraid most of the information I have about the Late Roman Republic comes from some fairly dated books (so if you have any recommendations you have would be appreciated).

I assume the Populares would be the dominant faction in Rome for some time to come. I don't think you'd get anything like Sulla's proscriptions and his dictatorship for a while yet, but I'm unsure of what a Rome where the Optimates are the weaker faction would look like. And would Julius Caesar still be able to get his big break? I certainly don't think he'd be enjoying dalliances with Nicomedes, considering Nicomedes would most likely be in exile rather than ruling Bithynia.
 
You really think there was a chance that Rome could have calmed down? I'm afraid most of the information I have about the Late Roman Republic comes from some fairly dated books (so if you have any recommendations you have would be appreciated).

I assume the Populares would be the dominant faction in Rome for some time to come. I don't think you'd get anything like Sulla's proscriptions and his dictatorship for a while yet, but I'm unsure of what a Rome where the Optimates are the weaker faction would look like. And would Julius Caesar still be able to get his big break? I certainly don't think he'd be enjoying dalliances with Nicomedes, considering Nicomedes would most likely be in exile rather than ruling Bithynia.

Well I mean Rome did more or less calm down until 50(see:Gruens Past Generation of The Roman republic). I don't see why it wouldn't calm down here since the civil war wasn't so much institutional so much as it was just an inevitable conclusion of Marius' machinations. This is before the worst of the civil war too, which helps in calming things down.

Edot: presenting things as populares and optimates is also a vast oversimplification. Politics in tone was far more fluid do political alliances and feuds crossed those boundaries to the point where they are rendered meaningless. There were so called optimates and populares on both sides and those allegiances shifted rapidly. Even as far as legislation goes there was little difference in substance. The same men found opposing one legislation because of it being sponsored by opponents of theirs might be found sponsoring similar, and often more radical, legislation shortly thereafter, opposed by the same people who sponsored the other legislation.
 
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Well if he wins the first Mithradatic War, that completely alters the civil war, and certainly changes things with Spartacus. Spartacus was likely a soldier under Mithradates who surrendered and was captured in one of his defeats. So Spartacus won't be a gladiator in Capua, but rather, perhaps an officer in the Pontic army. Though that doesn't necessarily butterfly another slave revolt.

Do you have a source for this? I have never heard that before.
 
Do you have a source for this? I have never heard that before.

Well Spartacus was a Thracian b descent and if he was a gladiator do he was probably a soldier. Given he was likely captured around the time of the Mithridatic wars and mithridates was known to use thracians in his army...I'll try and find a source, it's been awhile since I read anything on this period.

EDIT: Apparently it boils down to however you interpret a specific passage in Appian that refers to Spartacus' origins.
 
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A potential specific PoD that I had in mind for this (not to give anyone the false impression that I have the wherewithal to write a TL) is that Mithridates' son Arcathius, who was apparently a brilliant cavalry commander, survives the sudden illness that killed him in OTL as he was on his way south to fight Sulla. So, he he helps the Pontic armies beat Sulla, and then when the time comes for it Mithridates has a strong heir who can keep the empire together (not that we know how strong or weak Arcathius would be as a leader).
 
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