WI: Ming China settles Pacific Coast of America?

I've read about the idea of Ming China discovering the America's before Europe did, and I've heard some disagree with this. But lets say, for the sake of argument, that Ming China did find the America's, and decided to start expanding into this vast unclaimed world. How would the Ming Chinese deal with the Native American peoples and Civilizations? What would they think of the Native peoples? And what effect would this have when the Europeans arrive? Would a race between East and West for control of the Americas occur, with the natives caught in between?
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Well, what's the POD? You'd have to have a pretty significant change of mindset among the Chinese for this to happen, after all. The Ming don't ever seem to have thought about colonizing anything outside of China, though they were technically capable of doing so.
 
This has been run through many times, and I even made an abortive timeline on the basic premise when I was a misguided teenager. It is almost a cliche.

People bring up the idea that the Chinese didn't colonize much outside of China. Which is somewhat true, but misses the fact that most areas of present-day China are the result of a very successful colonization program by the Han people. Also disregards the unofficial colonization of Han populations into much of South-east Asia.

That said, there are a number of major issues that must be overcome.

The first is simply the fact that the Pacific is much, much wider than the Atlantic, and while the prevailing winds mean that any significant ocean-going in the Atlantic is going to yield the New World eventually, this is not true for the Pacific. Coast-hugging ships were pretty much sufficient for Pacific-Indian ocean trade thanks to the regular monsoons. The Chinese had little reason to sail off into the eastern ocean, unless they wanted to find Penglai or something, and little chance of reaching the New World and returning. I could see a purely exploratory expedition sent by an early Ming emperor, perhaps, but they'd be more likely to disappear or mayyybe reach Hawaii, extract some tribute from the locals, and turn back calling it success.

The second is the lack of any real reason for the Ming to colonize the New World, when there were areas much closer to home that were underpopulated and ripe for exploitation. The west coast has nothing much to offer the Chinese as it is.

I don't think it is completely impossible, just unlikely. If there were a set of circumstances in which the Ming became aware of an underpopulated continent in the far, far East, there still wouldn't be much impetus to go and colonize the area. Any Chinese movement to the New World would have to be non-government, probably merchants.

Say a Zheng He-style explorer in an ocean-going fleet was sent west, did manage to survive the Pacific crossing, managing to travel far enough down the coast to reach settled Mesoamerican peoples, and then get back, then maybe there might be some interest (gold!, after all, and unique trade goods). But it wouldn't be anything like the Europeans in the New World. No Ming conquistadors. Imperially-sanctioned high-risk, high-return treasure ship crossings exchanging bulk Chinese manufactures for gold and local goods? Maybe.

This would mean that some Eurasian diseases would probably be transmitted, particularly if the Ming merchants decided to see pigs, cows, horses and other livestock to the locals. This would mean a downturn in trade, but probably wouldn't be accompanied by Ming adventurers. So, when the Europeans arrived, they might be faced with a smaller native population, but one that is more immune to Eurasian disease, and access to livestock and some imported Chinese weapons and tools.
 
The only way it could possibly work is if the colonization was done by independent Chinese groups with a motive. With the Ming dynasty itself you would have to have a fight against a long grounded tradition of Sinocentrism, in order for colonies to even be considered.

As for impacts one TL that used independent or shipwrecked Chinese settlers, diseases still came and where transmitted but no sort of colonial actions in the sense of subjugation of the natives came about. It allowed the natives to give the Spanish a run for their money.
 
Considering I've been wrestling with some of these same issues with my timeline, like, well, right now, here's what I have to say: to create a colonization movement by a country in a timeline where there's not one in real history, regardless of where it is, you need three things:

(1) motive; (2) means; and (3) knowledge

As others here have capably noted, people in a prosperous and stable Ming China are not going to be highly motivated to leave a perfectly serviceable country to go to one where they have to start over with little more than rocks and trees to work with. Like in our actual history, things have to happen that will make groups of people want to leave, like the Puritans, the Huguenots, the Roman Catholics all seeking religious freedom from various strictures in their native countries. That motive has to be strong enough to motivate ferocious labors, terrible sacrifices, and basically the loss of the social ties and connections (extended families, hometowns) that make life rewarding for most people.

Does the society have a way to get where you want them to? What is the level of advancement they have with respect to ocean-going travel? Moreover, are they experienced enough with planning and executing such travel they won't get lost, won't die on the way, etc.?

And finally, they have to know where they're going. Unless you're a Viking blind drunk on some kind of nasty fermented honey or a seafaring Polynesian, you're not going to sail off into the wild blue without a specific known destination in mind. You have to know where you are going. Even if you wind up in the wrong place like some famous people in the early modern world do, you have to have a destination at least in mind.

And moreover, as a combination of (1) and (3) you can't just know where you are going and want to leave where you are, you have to have a good reason for wanting to go to that specific place rather than just emigrating to the next country over, which is what most people who are in trouble or who want to improve their lot in life do.

I am sure other people have things they could add to such a list that my addled brain can't imagine. But to my mind those are the basics. I would also advise to read some economic history about the time involved. Don't presume a level of sophistication in commercial relations that might not be warranted, or just impute to the government mercantilist economic policy assumptions when you don't know for sure that's what they were thinking at the time. Earlier this summer I read Fernand Braudel's The Wheels of Commerce, and that was for me a revelation. I can't recommend it enough if you're trying to understand the economic logic of any early modern colonial system.
 
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I would put a more successful attempt at colonization and exploration following European discovery of North America given they were in the best position to discover it. Now knowledgeable of the North American continent and having sampled its goods via the Spanish Trans Atlantic Trade, Chinese Merchants would seek the source of the wealth to an extent. Certainly the Chinese in OTL sent envoy's to Manilla thinking that it was there the Spanish were getting their gold at one point.

I have proposed before that an earlier Spanish discovery of California gold leads to the attraction of Chinese miners who revolt and form their own state.
 
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