WI: MiG-25 Correctly Identified as a Mach 3 Interceptor

Delta Force

Banned
Western intelligence misidentified the MiG-25 as a highly maneuverable dogfighter, a misconception which would not be corrected until Viktor Belenko defected to Japan with one in 1976. What if the MiG-25 had been correctly identified as a Mach 3 interceptor designed around a powerful avionics and missile system? Given the budget pressures of the time, might the F-15 be cancelled in favor of the F-14, or see development of a Phoenix missile variant?
 
Western intelligence misidentified the MiG-25 as a highly maneuverable dogfighter, a misconception which would not be corrected until Viktor Belenko defected to Japan with one in 1976. What if the MiG-25 had been correctly identified as a Mach 3 interceptor designed around a powerful avionics and missile system? Given the budget pressures of the time, might the F-15 be cancelled in favor of the F-14, or see development of a Phoenix missile variant?

I can't see the F-14 replacing the F-15 unless there are major budget issues and it is sold as far cheaper to do that. The two USAF and USN produced different planes to meet different requirements, or that is my understanding. The Mig-25 being thought to be a Titanium fighter instead of a Stainless Steel interceptor would not appear to be a make or break issue.

The US Navy requirement put shooting down large numbers of anti-ship missile armed Soviet bombers before they could launch as the prime requirement. Sacrificing the ability to dogfight to get more missiles - AIM-54's for example as you state - more range, better radar etc was acceptable in this context. The USAF was aiming at controlling the skies for 500 miles or so into enemy territory. Dogfighting and SAM evasion maneuvers demanded higher SEP, lower wing loading, and all that good dogfighting performance stuff.

Or at least that is the way it seemed at the time. Yes I do remember the F-15 as a paper project, the slogan 'A fighter pilots fighter plane' is one I still sounded seriously cool to my high school self. Pilots taking on Mig-21's in F-4's - without a gun armament mostly - wanted things the F-4 wasn't, that seems to have been rather important to the F-15 project too.
 
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The Mig-25 was Russia's answer to the B-70 Valkyrie - but the latter didn't get ordered. The F-15 OTOH was a result of combat experience during the Vietnam war. The USAF opted for a mix of 'cheap' F-16, and 'not cheap F-15s.
 
The Mig-25 was Russia's answer to the B-70 Valkyrie - but the latter didn't get ordered. The F-15 OTOH was a result of combat experience during the Vietnam war. The USAF opted for a mix of 'cheap' F-16, and 'not cheap F-15s.
Umm... That's only partly true. The spec for the F-15 was laid out to match the suspected performance of the Mig, which turned out to be a bit of overkill. I suspect that you'd have still ended up with a 'light' and a 'heavy' fighter (F15 and F16 in OTL), but the heavy wouldn't be as fast as the F15.
 

Delta Force

Banned
What about changes to the F-14 program itself?

The F-14 had a difficult time in development and was almost canceled until it was ordered by the Imperial Iranian Air Force, with the Shah helping to finance continued development. In the end the F-14 entered service to a lower specification than originally intended (the F-14A was intended as a prototype). It wasn't until the F-14B that the Tomcat received the F110 engines and air to ground capabilites originally slated for the original production F-14.

With the MiG-25 recognized as a Mach 3 heavy missile interceptor, it seems there would be more emphasis on improving the performance of the F-14 and its missiles. Perhaps it would enter service at the higher specification, with more emphasis on using the AIM-54 Phoenix against high performance maneuvering targets.
 
I can't see the F-14 replacing the F-15 unless there are major budget issues and it is sold as far cheaper to do that. The two USAF and USN produced different planes to meet different requirements, or that is my understanding. The Mig-25 being thought to be a Titanium fighter instead of a Stainless Steel interceptor would not appear to be a make or break issue.

The US Navy requirement put shooting down large numbers of anti-ship missile armed Soviet bombers before they could launch as the prime requirement. Sacrificing the ability to dogfight to get more missiles - AIM-54's for example as you state - more range, better radar etc was acceptable in this context. The USAF was aiming at controlling the skies for 500 miles or so into enemy territory. Dogfighting and SAM evasion maneuvers demanded higher SEP, lower wing loading, and all that good dogfighting performance stuff.

Or at least that is the way it seemed at the time. Yes I do remember the F-15 as a paper project, the slogan 'A fighter pilots fighter plane' is one I still sounded seriously cool to my high school self. Pilots taking on Mig-21's in F-4's - without a gun armament mostly - wanted things the F-4 wasn't, that seems to have been rather important to the F-15 project too.

it;s also why the Tornado ADV isn;t really a dogfighter - if you look at the role it was developed ( and introduced into) it was to go 'Bear' baiting in the GIUK gap from the 'world;s biggest aircraft carrier'
 
I talked to a knowledgeable friend about this. He said the Air force didn't want the F-14 for the F-15s job but it was considered for Air Defense Command. The F-14's engine upgrade was canceled early only to be resumed in the 80s. If there was a need it could have simply been continued.
 

Archibald

Banned
USAF_ADCOM_Grumman_F-14_Tomcat_proposed_interceptor_-_1972.jpg
 
I can't see the F-14 replacing the F-15 unless there are major budget issues and it is sold as far cheaper to do that. The two USAF and USN produced different planes to meet different requirements, or that is my understanding. The Mig-25 being thought to be a Titanium fighter instead of a Stainless Steel interceptor would not appear to be a make or break issue.

The US Navy requirement put shooting down large numbers of anti-ship missile armed Soviet bombers before they could launch as the prime requirement. Sacrificing the ability to dogfight to get more missiles - AIM-54's for example as you state - more range, better radar etc was acceptable in this context. The USAF was aiming at controlling the skies for 500 miles or so into enemy territory. Dogfighting and SAM evasion maneuvers demanded higher SEP, lower wing loading, and all that good dogfighting performance stuff.

Or at least that is the way it seemed at the time. Yes I do remember the F-15 as a paper project, the slogan 'A fighter pilots fighter plane' is one I still sounded seriously cool to my high school self. Pilots taking on Mig-21's in F-4's - without a gun armament mostly - wanted things the F-4 wasn't, that seems to have been rather important to the F-15 project too.

The slogan for the F-15 Eagle program was "Not a pound for Air to Ground!" It was meant to be the air superiority fighter that would control whatever air space it occupied It was developed after the U.S. had to fight maneuverable fighters like the Mig-21 and even more so the Mig-19 that they had encountered over Vietnam. The F-4 was a true multi-purpose aircraft that could fill multiple roles adequately but could not survive in a furball with the best that it encountered. So they started removing weight. Instead of two complete radios (transmit and receive) they had one RT and one aux receiver that weighed 1/4 what an RT would weigh. Cables were fabricated to minimum lengths. It was a bear to replace the comm panel in the cockpit because you couldn't pull the cables up to where you could actually look at the keyed connectors to hook them up. You had to reach way down in the console and gently feel how the connectors (there were 3) lined up before yd over ou worked the twist lock to connect them. in later assembly groups (called blocks) the cables grew a little, then a little more in the interest of 'maintainability'. Pilots could feel the difference between early and later A models. I was told by McAir Tech Reps that the length of the wire bundles alone saved over 500 pounds between the original prototype ones (standard amount of slack) and the first production models.

The way the Mig-25 most affected Eagle design parameters was the intercept parameters that it was tested against. The published results all matched or slightly exceeded the flight patterns that had been tracked of Mig-25s.
 

Archibald

Banned
Grumman tried to sell the Air Force "Air Defence Command" (home of equally gorgeous F-106 Delta Dart) Tomcats in their best and only role: long range interceptors. Note the big belly fairings with Phoenix: they are additional fuel tanks for longer range.

Alas, the days of the ADC were long gone, ICBMs being the real threat since 1957 at least.
The beautiful bird on the photo is only a mockup. No such Tomcats ever flew (alas !)
 
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