WI: Mexico wins Mex-American War

Ms Abby, I have the impression that you are new to this site. First of all, I would like to say welcome aboard. You'll find many very good people and many fascinating threads here.

There are, unfortunately, people who are condescending and obnoxious, but I suppose you will find those anywhere. I would suggest that you overlook posts that you might find abrupt or rude and not rise to the bait.

One thing that I would suggest is that you make use of the Search function. Admittedly, the search functions here are not particularly user friendly. But looking at your recent posts, I have the impression that you're posting a lot of ideas, and I think that many of these ideas have been canvassed extensively and have lead to elaborate discussions and even interesting timelines.

I would heartily commend you to searching. I think that it would be a lot more rewarding to identify timelines or threads that already address your issues. A little bit of effort searching, but much more immediate gratification.

Be well.
 
thanks. I am new even know I have almost 500 posts. but I have alot of alternate history ideas. including the timeline im working on. so. and ive tried the search function. but it takes to me a error page whenever I try to use it. but thanks ;)
 
This sounds like an interesting idea. One effect would definently be that Mexico keeps its territory, they might even get some from the US. I cant remember correctly, but if Texas was part of the US by then. . . Les just say "Second Texan Revolution" and "Texan Republic Refuses to Join US". . .
 
This is somewhat easy to do. Have Winfield Scott really, really bugger the Battle of Churubusco with Mexico having a little less infighting and Scott's entire army is defeated and destroyed. The end.
 
This sounds like an interesting idea. One effect would definently be that Mexico keeps its territory, they might even get some from the US. I cant remember correctly, but if Texas was part of the US by then. . . Les just say "Second Texan Revolution" and "Texan Republic Refuses to Join US". . .


In my opinion. I would say if Mexico wins. Texas becomes a republic again. or gets annexed into Mexico. and I belive Mexico gains control of everything past the Louisana Territory.
 
In my opinion. I would say if Mexico wins. Texas becomes a republic again. or gets annexed into Mexico. and I belive Mexico gains control of everything past the Louisana Territory.
Except Oregon, that was a joint US and British territory(I think it was at that time, or maybe that was earlier...) Maybe the USA leaves Oregon, or that is the only land the keep. Also, If Texas gets annexed you can bet that they'll fight another Revolution that California might take advantage of, but this time neither of them will join the USA.
 
Except Oregon, that was a joint US and British territory(I think it was at that time, or maybe that was earlier...) Maybe the USA leaves Oregon, or that is the only land the keep. Also, If Texas gets annexed you can bet that they'll fight another Revolution that California might take advantage of, but this time neither of them will join the USA.


the Republics of California and Texas might get the Mexicans themselfs. but a Mexican win in the Mex-American War. means a Mexico powerhouse


and Mexico could eventually invade Oregon and take that too. who knows.
 
title self explains

Unfortunately a full out victory is impossible. Texas is in firm American hands by now. It was annexed a few month prior to the war. Mexico's hold on Norther California was quite bad, the are hadn't been fully mapped. Most of the outpost north of San Fran Bay were American. While Utah was already being settled by Mormons.

Secondly despite what most American elementary history text books say, Mexico wasn't a power. It was was large, yes, but it was disunited unstable, and by all definitions a failed state at this point.

You need to change this.

This is somewhat easy to do. Have Winfield Scott really, really bugger the Battle of Churubusco with Mexico having a little less infighting and Scott's entire army is defeated and destroyed. The end.

Churubusco is a bit too late. The entire east coast of Mexico is occupied by this point. Taylor's army has made it all the way to Tampico and Veracruz, Scott is inside the Mexico City Valley (Churubusco is the southern edge of it), Kearney has made it to South California, as has Fremont, while Stockton is blockading the entire Pacific coast.

To stop Scott you need Puebla not to declare neutrality and stop him at Puebla or before he reaches Cuernavaca. From there it is easy to break his supply line to Veracruz. But you also need to stop Taylor, Monterrey can hold and if it does it probably diverts Kearny as well. Without Kearney Fremont and Stockton wont have enough men to quell the Southern Alta California rebellions.

If you manage all this. The best Mexico can get is a border around the 37-38th parallel, (basically around Arizona & New Mexico's northern border). And the Nueces and Pecos strips in in Texas.

This would anger Southerners in the US a lot. Perhaps an earlier attempt at secession? Texas would certainly feel betrayed by the US and cheated. And they might declare their annexation invalid. If they mange to get independence from the US, they be stuck between a revanchanist Mexico with whom they have border conflicts and a sour US. Unless the south is able to secede they might have to choose between the lesser of two evils.

You might see a "Republic of California" at some point breaking aay from Mexico after a large immigrant influx due to the gold rush. But I'd this is 50/50 since the US is likely to already hold the northern half which is the gold rich half.

For Mexico, little changes. The Reform War between liberals and conservatives will still happen. Perhaps a little earlier and not as violent. The Second Empire with Maximilian would probably be butterflied away. However since Mexico did not suffer the humiliation of OTL it might stabilize sooner, it all depends on who get the credit for keeping the gringoes away.

If you are interested read the TL on my sig.
 
This sounds like an interesting idea. One effect would definently be that Mexico keeps its territory, they might even get some from the US. I cant remember correctly, but if Texas was part of the US by then. . . Les just say "Second Texan Revolution" and "Texan Republic Refuses to Join US". . .

Yeah, the search is kind of buggy. You have to pick just three terms to search for.

Anyway, welcome to ah.com!
 
the Republics of California and Texas might get the Mexicans themselfs. but a Mexican win in the Mex-American War. means a Mexico powerhouse


and Mexico could eventually invade Oregon and take that too. who knows.
Unlikely, would Mexico really be willing to go to war with Great Britan over Oregon. No.

But the Mexican powerhouse thing, yes :). Imagine the Zimmerman telegram having a different effect. . .:D
However, the Republics would probably still gain independence.
 
Churubusco is a bit too late. The entire east coast of Mexico is occupied by this point. Taylor's army has made it all the way to Tampico and Veracruz, Scott is inside the Mexico City Valley (Churubusco is the southern edge of it), Kearney has made it to South California, as has Fremont, while Stockton is blockading the entire Pacific coast.

To stop Scott you need Puebla not to declare neutrality and stop him at Puebla or before he reaches Cuernavaca. From there it is easy to break his supply line to Veracruz. But you also need to stop Taylor, Monterrey can hold and if it does it probably diverts Kearny as well. Without Kearney Fremont and Stockton wont have enough men to quell the Southern Alta California rebellions.

If you manage all this. The best Mexico can get is a border around the 37-38th parallel, (basically around Arizona & New Mexico's northern border). And the Nueces and Pecos strips in in Texas.

This would anger Southerners in the US a lot. Perhaps an earlier attempt at secession? Texas would certainly feel betrayed by the US and cheated. And they might declare their annexation invalid. If they mange to get independence from the US, they be stuck between a revanchanist Mexico with whom they have border conflicts and a sour US. Unless the south is able to secede they might have to choose between the lesser of two evils.

You might see a "Republic of California" at some point breaking aay from Mexico after a large immigrant influx due to the gold rush. But I'd this is 50/50 since the US is likely to already hold the northern half which is the gold rich half.

For Mexico, little changes. The Reform War between liberals and conservatives will still happen. Perhaps a little earlier and not as violent. The Second Empire with Maximilian would probably be butterflied away. However since Mexico did not suffer the humiliation of OTL it might stabilize sooner, it all depends on who get the credit for keeping the gringoes away.

If you are interested read the TL on my sig.

Point. Perhaps if the Mexicans finessed things a little better during the early fighting with Taylor, they had the larger army and advantage of terrain. Mexico's got a lot of problems in the war, but a victory for it is more than somewhat feasible. Though defeat of Taylor and Scott right there butterflies away 1840s and 1850s politics in a recognizable sense.
 
On March 7th, 1847 Winfield Scott and his staff were on ship scouting the landing beaches of Veracruz. when they drifted too close and came under fire from a Mexican fort. Slightly better Mexican gunnery would have resulted in the deaths of Commodore David Conner and General Scott as well as George Meade, Robert E Lee, Joseph Johnston, and PGT Beauregard.
 
Santa Anna burns down the White House, the Peace Treaty cedes everything west of the Missisipi to Mexico. ;)
 
Scott's expedition was not pre-ordained so you could have a situation where Taylor is stuck, albeit more because he doesn't want to move than because the Mexicans make it impossible and where US politics eventually make a compromise peace the most likely outcome. IIRC a lot of the US army is state militia drafted on a fixed period so that they want to go home.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
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