WI: Messerschmitt Bf 109 B/C vs. Avia B-534 in 1938

I would have thought that as with any opposing aircraft with such substantial speed difference, the Bf-109 could have zoomed and boomed on it's terms, using it's fast acceleration in a dive and high speed (both zoom and horizontal) to negate the B-534 nominal climb and maneuverbility advantage.

Quite possibly. Not sure how many German pilots (in the initial days of the WI war) were trained for this. Many of them were very new to Bf-109.
Another thing is given the B-534 better hp to kg ratio might reduce the advantage of accelaration. It is clear that Bf-109 could leave the fight by dive (I've heard some thoughts about problematic cams of the early engines which made this manoeuvre problematic, but I'm not sure about this), but the same can be achieved by B-534 with its climbing advantage. Seems that polish PZL P.11 were able deal with much more advanced (and powerful) Bf-109 E with pilots of one more year of training using experience from Legion Condor, at least it was no turkey shooting over Poland skies. Guess the situation over skies of Czechoslovakia might be even more different, given the underpowered nature of (without no doubt more modern) Bf-109B/C with less experienced pilots.
But this would be indeed interesting question and how that would transfer to loss rates of respective sides.
 
I feel the Slovak-Hungarian affair was rather irrelevant.
Well it was not affair. It was war.
It's actually quite logical for people to question it as it was basically first battle use of Avia's. However conflict was short and Slovaks disorganized.

In later stages of war SVZ used their Avia's with more success. Either during war against Poland or against USSR. However at that point their were already too obsolete.

Even more interesting are actions of Slovak Avia's and Letov's in September and October 1944 against Germans. If Slovaks managed to operate their planes against Luftwaffe in 1944 why Czechoslovakia wouldn't be able to do same or better in 1938 when odds were not so big?


According to specs (such as mentioned there : http://www.cs-letectvi.cz/letadla/avia-b-534 the B-534 was supposed to be equipped by two way radio Mk.30
If you look at the drawing (such as http://www.avia-club.com/graphics/gallery/full/303_b-534-iv.jpg) you can see the aerial behind the canopy. As mentioned earlier, radios might not be in every single Avia, but I bet the same can be said about Bf-109, they were fresh of the factory in some cases and equipment might be a bit of problem.
I believe it was radio vz. 35. But all articles and books I went through mention that most of Avias had radio or at least leader of the flight. Also i noticed on old pictures their quality i not so high you can see antenna as well as yo barely see wires between the wings. But that's just detail.
 
Not sure about this. There were 326 planes in service on September, 1st 1938, while the November, 10th 1938, the number was 424. On March 15th 1939 there was 443 Avias and further 72 in production. It is clear that production might be reduced in case of war, but the production was in a full swing and there would be quite a few new planes coming from the lines (unless Luftwaffe would be able to annihilate the production plants, but I don't think so)
However you are not taking into account of possible evacuation of Avia factory from Prague. I believe they had another built in Kunovice. But still In my opinion it would be much smarter to have new facilities built somewhere in Slovakia (better in underground facilities as Skoda or ZB did).

I think German air attacks wouldn't be much disruption however what if German managed to break towards Prague?

Germans would probably get some Doras (Bf-109 D) but it would be interesting how important would be the role of the units equipped with Arados Ar-68, if substantial amount of Bf-109 got shot-down or grounded by technical problems (lack of spare parts and trained mechanics to keep them going)
Very likely especially with weather worsening. Probably would be much easier to operate bi-planes. After all we can look again into Fall 1944 when B-534s were operated basically to the end of Uprising.
 
I would have thought that as with any opposing aircraft with such substantial speed difference, the Bf-109 could have zoomed and boomed on it's terms, using it's fast acceleration in a dive and high speed (both zoom and horizontal) to negate the B-534 nominal climb and maneuverbility advantage.

However it is quite possible operations will be taking part in lower altitudes for various reason. Wit terrain as well as weather playing huge roll it will be hard to boom, zoom and then find enemy again. After all again Slovakia in Fall 1944 Letov's as well as Avia's operated against much modern German planes and most casualties were due to AA, not due enemy fighters.
 
Radios might have been common equipment, but 2 available cutaway drawings show none. No available period photographs I can find show antennas, although many do not, and mention is made that Bulgarian B.534s had no radio or oxygen equipment before 1943. If you have information, please mention it. One of the cutaway drawing sources shows a CR-32 with radio, which makes ambushes much easier.
Blue prints as well as on some photgraphs on this page https://forum.warthunder.com/index....rnational-aircraft-tree-lets-build-it/page-15 antennas are visible. As well as cutaway drawing in Romanian? on this page shows antenna. Radios, or oxygen equipment were standard requirements by Czechoslovak Air Force however its true there were portion of planes without it. As to Bulgarian planes not being equipped that's how Germans sold them the planes.
 
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Were B.534s equipped with radios in 1938? What was the early warning situation?

Would be interesting to compare how was the situation with radios equipment of Bf-109 - they should carry the radio, but had all the airplanes (given some of them were really new to the service in 10/1939) radio. What about older Ar-68 and He-51 ?

Anybody knows any info about Luftwaffe early warning system in Ostmark and around Dresden ? Would they be able to intercept any counterstrike either done by B-71 during day or MB-200 at night ?
 
Would be interesting to compare how was the situation with radios equipment of Bf-109 - they should carry the radio, but had all the airplanes (given some of them were really new to the service in 10/1939) radio. What about older Ar-68 and He-51 ?

Anybody knows any info about Luftwaffe early warning system in Ostmark and around Dresden ? Would they be able to intercept any counterstrike either done by B-71 during day or MB-200 at night ?

Maybe look at MB-210 losses of AdA in 1939/40. I believe they were not extremely high.
 
Maybe look at MB-210 losses of AdA in 1939/40. I believe they were not extremely high.

On the other hand, the casualties of SB-2 in Spain (at the Munich time, not early after being introduced) were quite high. This brings a two-fold question :

Would Czechoslovakia Air Force had been able to carry any successful bomb attacks or would they get massacred instantly ?

What about the same ability of Luftwaffe to let bombers go over Czechoslovakia without fighter cover ? If we look at the figures of available airplanes for the Fall Grün, there was way more bombers than fighters on German side, and not all available Bf-109's might be available (some might be needed to guard the western border, while most of the bombers might get deployed over Czechoslovakia). While He-111 maximum speed was quite high, the cruising speed with full bomb load would be well within a reach of B-534
 
On the other hand, the casualties of SB-2 in Spain (at the Munich time, not early after being introduced) were quite high. This brings a two-fold question :

Would Czechoslovakia Air Force had been able to carry any successful bomb attacks or would they get massacred instantly ?

What about the same ability of Luftwaffe to let bombers go over Czechoslovakia without fighter cover ? If we look at the figures of available airplanes for the Fall Grün, there was way more bombers than fighters on German side, and not all available Bf-109's might be available (some might be needed to guard the western border, while most of the bombers might get deployed over Czechoslovakia). While He-111 maximum speed was quite high, the cruising speed with full bomb load would be well within a reach of B-534
What I checked MB-210 losses during 1940 when used to attack advancing German columns at night were some 10 machines to AA at night in two weeks. That's not so bad in my opinion. If after firs big losses of B-71 Czechoslovak command wen to night, early down attacks against strategic targets such as bridges in Austria?
 
What I checked MB-210 losses during 1940 when used to attack advancing German columns at night were some 10 machines to AA at night in two weeks. That's not so bad in my opinion. If after firs big losses of B-71 Czechoslovak command wen to night, early down attacks against strategic targets such as bridges in Austria?

Bombing Linz would probably be a huge difference for Wehrmacht ground operations from the south. Bombing some big airfields might yield some surprising results, my understanding is that German forces were feeling invincible and haven't paid that much attention to protecting their potential targets.

On the other side, apart from bombing Prague from psychological reasons not sure what German targets would be. They would avoid bombing factories as they assume quick advance, leaving transport such as railways and roads as primary target together with attacks on military (not sure if they would be any effective against field air stripes). Bombing of fortifications would be just a waste of effort, and Wehrmacht would need to find another way to get through border fortifications. How much damage can be done before Luftwaffe runs out of bombs in 1938 ?
 
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