WI: Medieval native Irish state?

Dorozhand

Banned
Let's say that, some time during the decline of English authority in Ireland during the 1300s, there arises among the native clans a charismatic warlord that unifies all the clans into a kingdom, and drives the English out completely. Let's say also that he is good enough at statebuilding so that the kingdom doesn't fall apart after his death. What would a unified Kingdom of Ireland look like, and what would it do to European politics in general?
 
The main issue is the clanic feature itself. Not only they were extremly divided and prone to prefer a normand overlord rather than submit to a neighbour, but institutionally they tend to focus on local matters.

Not impossible, but I think the most probable would be an irish-normand lord getting the spoils of Plantagenet lordship having the best of both worlds : normands tended to use extensivly irish features but benefited from institutions a bit more prone to regional expansion and unification.

Maybe a Norman lord powerful enough to repel Gaelic raids and using this to both acquire legitimacy and lands...
Of course, more he would be close of the Pale more it would both allow him to begin with a better backside, but it would prevent him to efficiently cut from royal administration...

I don't know enough of Irish History to avise you a noble or a family in particular, but my take on a Hiberno-Normand takeover.
 
I'm sure that it wouldn't be long before the English tried to reconquer them, so whatever this leader it would have to be quick, relatively speaking.
 
I'm sure that it wouldn't be long before the English tried to reconquer them, so whatever this leader it would have to be quick, relatively speaking.

I think they would have other things to be busy with : Hundred Years' War, Black Death, Wars in Scotland...
Not much to be worried, maybe, but I think it could be still prioritary than reconquering an island without too much strategical or economical interests that they barely controlled in first place.
 
The main issue is the clanic feature itself. Not only they were extremly divided and prone to prefer a normand overlord rather than submit to a neighbour, but institutionally they tend to focus on local matters.

Not impossible, but I think the most probable would be an irish-normand lord getting the spoils of Plantagenet lordship having the best of both worlds : normands tended to use extensivly irish features but benefited from institutions a bit more prone to regional expansion and unification.

Maybe a Norman lord powerful enough to repel Gaelic raids and using this to both acquire legitimacy and lands...
Of course, more he would be close of the Pale more it would both allow him to begin with a better backside, but it would prevent him to efficiently cut from royal administration...

I don't know enough of Irish History to avise you a noble or a family in particular, but my take on a Hiberno-Normand takeover.

The Fitzgeralds of County Kildare would likely be the best choice. they often have the run of Ireland, although always in the King's name. Possibly one gets ambitious during the reign of a particularly bad and incompetent English King, and is able to make his title sticalthough, even in that case, dealing with the Princes in the west will be aconstant problem..
 
I think they would have other things to be busy with : Hundred Years' War, Black Death, Wars in Scotland...
Not much to be worried, maybe, but I think it could be still prioritary than reconquering an island without too much strategical or economical interests that they barely controlled in first place.
Relatively speaking, 200 or 300 hundred years or so is not that long in the life of a country
 
Relatively speaking, 200 or 300 hundred years or so is not that long in the life of a country

I'm sorry but "it wouldn't take long" doesn't usually mean "200 or 300 years". Maybe it was your intention, but it sounded like "if they move, they will be invaded anew".
Still, 300 years is a good guesstimate, OTL it was the time that passed before the Tudor invaded anew Ireland. I don't think a unified lordship or kingdom could really last by itself but could be supported by ennemies of English/British kings.
 
I'm sorry but "it wouldn't take long" doesn't usually mean "200 or 300 years". Maybe it was your intention, but it sounded like "if they move, they will be invaded anew".
Still, 300 years is a good guesstimate, OTL it was the time that passed before the Tudor invaded anew Ireland. I don't think a unified lordship or kingdom could really last by itself but could be supported by ennemies of English/British kings.
and a 300 hundred year old country is still young, which is what I was getting at
 
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