WI: Mecklenburg Declaration

The Mecklenburg Declaration is a disputed document that was first discovered in 1819, and was purported to have been issued by the people of Mecklenburg County, declaring themselves a free and independent republic. It is held to this day as a point of pride in North Carolina, and is purportedly the first declaration of independence issued in the colonies. (being issued in May 20th, 1775)

It is unknown whether the declaration is true, but it may be referring to, instead, the Mecklenburg Resolves that were published in May 31 of that same year. The resolves are a declaration of how the county is establishing/changing their government, but it stops short of declaring independence.

Now, would it be possible for the Declaration to be true and extend to cover the entire Carolina colony? (North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia) What steps would be needed for those three colonies to unite and declare their independence separately from the rest of the colonies?

Essentially:

1. Have NC, SC, and GA join together and, with the Mecklenburg Declaration, proclaim independence from the crown.
2. Have, at a later time, the rest of the Thirteen Colonies, declare their own independence as well as a United States. No further balkanization; only two rebel countries.
2a. Add to those United States Nova Scotia and what would later be known as Prince Edward Island (the former more than the latter)
3. Have both countries earn their independence, with Carolina gaining everything within the boundaries of the Charter of 1665. The United States would gain the same territory as OTL plus Nova Scotia and PEI (the former moreso than the latter)
4. The British retain the southern tip of Florida outside the bounds of the charter and all former Spanish possessions at the Peace of Paris.

What PoD would be needed to accomplish this, or at least parts of this?
 
I'm fairly sure that they'd just get end up getting annexed by the US. Remember the California Republicband Republic of Texas? I don't see why this country would be different.

Edit: Don't know why there's a frowny face in the title. This keeps happening and it's starting to piss me off.
 
That's always a possibility. The three carolina colonies had just fewer than 1/3 of the total population. (About 725 thousand out of 2.4 million, if I have my math right) And, if we're including West and the northern half of East Florida, that is even more.

This is what I use for those numbers: http://smith.quicktel.com/quests/population.htm

Most of East Florida, and a good portion of the Carolinas, were already loyalist. (the numbers in the latter are exaggerated, but the gist is true) For this to work, there would need to be a major shift in the southern colonies in terms of attitude, so it wouldn't be so loyalist.

How would the United States justify conquering a fellow revolutionary state that they fought side by side with to gain independence? They might be able to by 1820's or so, but that would give the other nation that much time to grow. The only obvious answer is slavery, but that's a long way down the line, and a lot could happen in both countries in that point.
 
It wouldn't he conquering. There probably wouldn't be any fighting. And honestly, the Carolinas themselves would probably just lope into the main revolutionary cause during the ARW and this declaration would be forgotten about.

They'd justify an annexation by saying that they're unifying the country. And they'd be right. The Carolinas have no major religious, political, or ethnic differences from the rest of the colonies. The same reasons they gave IOTL for annexing Texas and California.

I don't think there would be much protest over it. If anything, they'd probably ask to be annexed. Being independent would put it in more danger from reclamation and run down it's economy.
 
Very true. That would be a challenge in and of itself. Still, this is still in the period of time where the United States are, not the United States is. They may join it out of need to survive, but I doubt it would be immediately forgotten.

So, how would a national identity be created? They already think of themselves as different from the Virginians, the Pennsylvanians, and all the rest, so I think it could be created then. The war itself would be difficult, as the start of the war would be fought on their own against the British with nothing but the sympathy and material support of others, at least for the first few months.

An environment would have to be created so that the citizens would think "we fought too hard and too long for our own independence for us to join another union. We deserve our own nation, not merely a few states in another."

Edit: Would this be less reasonable than the US being balkanized into multiple small states after the ARW?
 
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I don't know how a national identity could form but I do know that it's a lot more likely for the US to balkanize following the ARW. Simply have the Articles of Confederation stay put.

Honestly though, I wouldn't see the Carolinas gaining independence any more likely than the rest of the states after the war. The founding fathers wanted everyone to stick together. If the Carolinas split, then it's probable that other states would too.
 
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I'm not trying to have them be part of the US of the first place. I agree that would happen if they joined. Then the entire nation would balkanize with the Articles. Which is why the PoD would have to be earlier, so that there is a separate revolutionary war for each country, where both nations would be cobelligerents.

That might require going to an earlier date, though. Perhaps by never having Georgia become a separate colony, and maintain it under South Carolina. (its population wasn't that large, so it might be possible.)
 
I'm fairly sure that they'd just get end up getting annexed by the US. Remember the California Republicband Republic of Texas? I don't see why this country would be different.

Edit: Don't know why there's a frowny face in the title. This keeps happening and it's starting to piss me off.

The Bear Flag Republic would be a joke if it didn't cause more problems than it solved, such as alignating the Californios that the State Department was trying to convince they'd get a better deal from DC than Mexico. Don't know how far that ever went but the so-called Republic of California didn't even last a month.

Now Texas, that was a proper republic... even if it's founders might be considered filibusters.
 
I'm not trying to have them be part of the US of the first place. I agree that would happen if they joined. Then the entire nation would balkanize with the Articles. Which is why the PoD would have to be earlier, so that there is a separate revolutionary war for each country, where both nations would be cobelligerents.

That might require going to an earlier date, though. Perhaps by never having Georgia become a separate colony, and maintain it under South Carolina. (its population wasn't that large, so it might be possible.)

Others might be able to figure out a POD, but I myself can't think of one. There would have to be major changes for this to work out. The only thing I could think of would another power colonizing those areas, thus being a seperate ethnicity and culture. Besides that, I'm sorry but I really don't know how.
 
Others might be able to figure out a POD, but I myself can't think of one. There would have to be major changes for this to work out. The only thing I could think of would another power colonizing those areas, thus being a seperate ethnicity and culture. Besides that, I'm sorry but I really don't know how.

It's all good. Thank you for your input; it did illustrate how difficult it would be to accomplish.
 
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