WI: MBT-70/KPz-70 enters service

Riain

A lot of nails in the coffin of the MBT70. If the gun worked the driver would still freak out and I am wondering about the kneeling suspension after a couple of weeks in the bush eating mines, rpgs etc that wouldn't knock out the tank.
 

Belesarius

RightTosser said:
Makes sense, and there is certainly historical precedent for it, what with early model Abrams tanks having 105mm guns and A1+ models having 130mm guns.

Here's my idea of how that evolution happens with the MBT-70.

1973-1975: MBT-70 enters service with US Army, armed with 152mm gun. KPz-70 enters service with the Heer, armed with a 120mm Rheinmetall come 5 years early.

late '70s- concerns about ability of 152mm gun to defeat armor of future Soviet tanks, talk of replacing it with 120mm gun

early '80s- M70A1 enters service, armed with license-produced version of the 120mm Rheinmetall.

late '80s, '90s, '00s- new 120mm GLATGM produced, broadly similar to OTL's LAHAT. Development and introduction into service dependent on what the threat picture looks like, with such a munition probably being developed in the '00s/'10s if it is broadly similar to OTL.
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I hope that's a typo. The A1/A2 Abrams both have the same 120mm, not a 130. There was talk of a 140, but that never materialized.
 

Redbeard

Banned
Apart from all the problems with immature technology in suspension, driver in turret etc. I think the biggest problem would have been the obsolescence of anti-tank missiles. When the MBT 70 was conceived missiles were THE thing and this was apparently confirmed in the 1970s Middle East wars.

After that layered/ceramic armour and re-active armour was introduced and put the anti-tank focus back on extremely high velocity APDS like shots. You of course still could have APDS ammo for the 152 mm gun, but it would be less effective than what would be possible with a longer barrelled 120mm gun like in the OTL Abrams or Leo 2s. The kinetic energy put into the APFSDS shots from these guns are nothing short of scary - not even a hill slope will stop them!
 
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Riain

It's interesting that they went down this gun/missile path when the L11 120mm rifled gun was already in service with the British and killing tanks at out to 4000m.
 
Driftless

Driftless

Donor
Riain said:
It's interesting that they went down this gun/missile path when the L11 120mm rifled gun was already in service with the British and killing tanks at out to 4000m.
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The cynical side of me thinks the missile guys had better sales reps.... But that's overly simplistic and I have no basis for that idea.
 

Riain

Driftless said:
The cynical side of me thinks the missile guys had better sales reps.... But that's overly simplistic and I have no basis for that idea.
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This was also the era of the AH56 Cheyanne, maybe the Army was full of people obsessed with ultra-high-tech shit at the time.
 
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