Sigismund Augustus was not kind of man, who would enforce new confession on his subjects. Habsburgs and Pope were aware of it, otherwise, having fresh memories of Henry VIII in mind, Pope would be less likely to refuse him annulment and risk possiblity of another monarch breaking with Rome.
WI | Mary Tudor marries Sigismund II, King of Poland
- Thread starter Tempered Zen
- Start date
If Mary is wed to Sig before his first OTL marriage (my Anne Boleyn or Jane Seymour arrange it suggestion), then she's going to Poland.
If she's forced to change her name.....Catalina Maria. For her mama and to piss off Anne Boleyn. Jane Seymour (if she arranges the marriage) might actually suggest it when the Polish Envoys point out that in Poland, Mary/Maria is reserved for the mother of Christ. She'll still be known privately (among her ladies) as Mary (or Maria).
Interesting. So Sigismund would in this case become King of England on Edward’s death, and Elizabeth would be cut out of the succession?
That Sigismund failed to sire an heir by three women suggests to me that he won’t have much more luck with Mary.
As a Queen of Poland, I imagine Mary becoming a big sponsor of the Jesuits and an enemy of the magnates, particularly those in Lithuania (especially the Calvinist members of the Radziwill family). Maybe she’d also be hostile to the Orthodox. But I don’t see Sigismund indulging all her anger—whatever Mary’s hostility to Protestantism, he’d be more likely to try and solve the English religious issue by trying to import the Polish-Lithuanian custom of toleration over the sea. Less ‘bloody Mary,’ more ‘Good King Sigismund.’
I stand by my earlier remark that it would probably be more convenient to split the domains in two—one son to ride herd on the Sejm, the other to keep the English from slaughtering one another. But that assumes Sigismund has heirs.
If not, then Elizabeth would still take the English throne (though I think her pragmatic enough to continue the Jagiellonian toleration). Might she stand for election as female King of Poland (“I’ve the heart and stomach of a king, and a King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania at that!”)? Her religious convictions throw a wrench in that, but perhaps Warsaw is worth a Mass. If not, does Poland go the OTL Valois route?
For that matter, Henry III was one of Elizabeth’s suitors. He didn’t much care for Poland, or Anna Jagiellon, or Elizabeth (or women in general), but maybe his brother would push for the marriage more aggressively if it means getting three kingdoms under the Valois family.
So here's the thing. If Mary's Queen of Poland, stuck halfway across Europe and probably struggling either because she's not producing children, or just that her husband is more interested in other women (because Barbara Radziwiłł is probably going to walk onto the scene, and Mary is going to get Anne Boleyn War Flashbacks), she is never going to take the English throne. If she's sent during Anne Boleyn's tenure as Queen, she definitely is going to have her succession rights set aside, and most likely that'll happen under Jane Seymour too. The real question comes in with how Europe responds to a 20 year old Elizabeth succeeding as a more naive, Protestant Queen, because that's what most likely is going to happen. Without the 5 years of Protestant persecution and the horrors that is wrought, Elizabeth is probably going to stay the course her brother began.
Sigismund supposedly had some bastard children, and Mary at 30-31 (IIRC the otl date of Polish envoy's proposal was 1546) or, even better in her early twenties (though I don't think it would be possible during Anne Boleyn's tenure as it would require some legal gymnastics to make both Mary and Henry's marriage legitimate, and Sigismund was still somewhat too young at the time) has better chances of getting pregnant than Mary approaching forty. I would say, if they have a boy he would have best chances of getting the English crown after Edward, even as an infant (although I doubt that Polish-Lithuanian nobility would let the only son to leave Poland easily). Henry would probably put him in the line of succession if the boy is born before his death.
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You mean daughter of Barbara Giżanka? Sigismund belived that child to be his, but hardly anyone on his court shared King's belief.
Married before 1540, perhaps a child or two might occur (Mary's mom side was fertile, so a low sperm count might not be so problematic for her).
Plus Siggie only got the STD/venereal disease that took away his ability to have kids in the 1540s (he caught it from one of his mom's ladies-in-waiting who had the job of "making a man" of him IIRC, didn't he @Jan Olbracht?)
Problem is, that lady-in-waiting (Diana di Cordona) "made a man of him" when Siggie was 15 years old! Although it is not certain if she is to be blamed for King's inability to produce children, Siggie had lots of other mistresses in his life, but getting rid of Diana should help, she was 20 years older than Sigismund and very "experienced".
Anything from 14-16 was considered "normal" according to Antonia Fraser's bio on Louis XIV. The lady was normally an older woman chosen from amongst momma's ladies in waiting (Christabella Wyndham for Charles II, Catherine "One-Eyed Kate" Bellier, Bss de Beauvais). So, even if he had already been married to Mary, she wouldn't have been doing any cherry-picking
. We just need to get someone besides D. di Cardona to the ahem...defloweringSiggie's father only had one mistress in his life, his great-grandfather Władysław Jagiełło/Jogaila was known to be far more interested in hunting than in women, and Siggie's uncle, Vladislaus of Bohemia and Hungary, was known to "not ever be with a woman" before he married Anne de Foix at age 46, so if only Sigismund Augustus was just a bit more 'standard' member of House of Jagiellon...Anything from 14-16 was considered "normal" according to Antonia Fraser's bio on Louis XIV. The lady was normally an older woman chosen from amongst momma's ladies in waiting (Christabella Wyndham for Charles II, Catherine "One-Eyed Kate" Bellier, Bss de Beauvais). So, even if he had already been married to Mary, she wouldn't have been doing any cherry-picking
I think his "randy Andy" tendencies came from his Sforza side. If one looks at the mistresses and bastards the Sforza (and Visconti before them) dukes had, it seems more in line. Still, maybe the virginal Siggie sees Mary, falls in love with her and decides not to stray from his marital bed.
This is entirely possible. Remember, OTL he secretly married the woman he loved (Barbara Radziwill, I believe) and the marriage ended at her death. So, him falling in love (a la H8 with Katherine of Aragon) and not straying until much later is reasonable.
What would E6's reaction be to his Roman Catholic (heretic!) sister having issue that would precede Elizabeth in the line of succession? Would the Regency Council take steps earlier with regard to Jane Gray (might they get E6 to marry her, hoping for issue in the marriage)?
Question is, how and in what circumstances could Mary Tudor impress Sigismund? IOTL once Barbara caught King's eye, he loved her insanely. He married her against all odds, conflicted himself with rest of family and even risked dethronization. Enraged nobles called Barbara "Grand Whore of Lithuania" (instead of Grand Duchess). When Barbara fell ill (propably she was killed by cancer) and her body started to decay when she was still alive, servants couldn't withstand odour but King stayed in her chamber and watched over her till she died, and then followed her coffin on foot during funeral procession, from Cracow to Vilnius. So if Siggie fell in love with her, he would not care about political gains, but what about other side?
Or just let Barbe's first husband live. IDK what killed him OTL, but I'm pretty sure that her being married might be a deterrent.
If someone needs to be killed I'd say it should be rather Bona than Barbara. She was terrible mother. For Sigismund Augustus she was overprotective, but at the same time she treated her daughters (except for Izabela, whom she saw as continuation of herself) almost like expendable burden. Without her influence Sigismund Augustus would be different person. To ever meet Mary Tudor Siggie would need to be allowed to travel to England, while IOTL his overprotective mother was unhappy even with him moving to Vilnius.
There is also other option-Sigismund Augustus could have younger brother, that would give him more freedom and possibly would make Bona less overprotective. All that is needed is to avoid accident during hunting party in 1527, when Bona watched bear hunting in forest near Cracow, big bear from Lithuania was released from the box. Initially sluggish, animal suddenly attacked hunters and caused panic among spectators. Bona's horse was scared and she fell from horseback. She was pregnant then, as result of fall she gave premature birth to a son, who lived only long enough to be baptized as Olbracht. Normally he should be born in February 1528.