WI | Mary Tudor marries Sigismund II, King of Poland

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Alexander Helios, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. Alexander Helios Pre-Columbian Satan

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    OTL Sigismund, King of Poland tried to marry Mary Tudor. If this marriage came to be, would England come into a personal union with Poland?
     
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  2. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Presumably. Of course, depending on when said marriage takes place, could affect whether Edward/Henry VIII has (more) kids or not.

    That said, it might be easier to remove a Catholic princess married to a foreigner king in almost Russia from the succession should Ned still kick without kids. Catholic foreign queen (Mary) vs. Protestant bachelorette (Elizabeth) at home, especially where Mary's husband has no means of projecting his power into England (as say, a marriage to the dauphin or the king of Spain would).
     
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  3. TruthfulPanda Gone Fishin'

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    No personal union.
    Once Edward joins the choir invisible it'd be either Queen Regnant Jane or Bess.
    Mary is half a world away ...
    If the couple have sons that'd change things in Poland and Lithuania - most probably no PLC.
     
  4. Wendell Wendell

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    One of their hypothetical sons or grandsons might end up King of England though, down the line.
     
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  5. kasumigenx Well-Known Member

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    I think a son of Mary and Sigismund might marry Mary Queen of Scots as a ticket to the throne of England.
     
  6. BlueFlowwer Well-Known Member

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    Or imagine a male Mary, queen of Scots wedding the oldest daughter of Mary and Sigismund...
     
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  7. Alexander Helios Pre-Columbian Satan

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    I agree. Though as @Wendell said, if Ned dies without children [as OTL] Mary would be Queen of England. Jane is unpopular and Bess is one step down the line of succession.
     
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  8. Alexander Helios Pre-Columbian Satan

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    The United Kingdom of England, Ireland, Scotland, and Poland?
     
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  9. Jan Olbracht Well-Known Member

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    Sigismund Augustus as husband of Mary Tudor is entertaining (although unlikely idea) considering the fact, that IOTL Sigismund married his sister-in-law named Catherine, who happened to be close relative of the Emperor and whom he later tried to divorce, having no son with her, but failed to achieve annulment, despite threatening Pope with breaking with Rome. Sounds familiar? ;)
     
  10. desmirelle director of admissions, brookview sanitarium

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    Sigismund II Augustus was childless in three marriages. If we're going with this, have Anne Boleyn arrange it in 1534-35, before he weds Elisabeth of Austria, as a way to get Mary out of the way while making it look like she's trying to help the girl......Sig was born in 1520, Mary in 1516, not unlike the age difference between H8 & and his first wife.

    It could even be Jane Seymour arranging it, sincerely trying to get the girl a husband. OTL, Sig didn't wed until 1543, so either one works.
     
  11. Polish Eagle AntiFa Supersoldier

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    [shrug] Maybe Mary Tudor has daddy issues ITTL?

    Anyway, how would such a union physically work? How much time would Sigismund spend in England, if any? How much time would Mary* spend in Poland? Sigismund had better hope for multiple sons, to split up the domains a la Charles V.

    As an aside, the Polish aristocracy IOTL pressured Maria Louisa to change her name to Ludwika Maria, in keeping with a custom reserving the name Mary for the mother of Christ alone. This POD is before the Commonwealth formally formed, though, so could they pressure Mary Tudor to do the same?
     
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  12. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    ISTR reading that there WERE those in Poland-Lithuania who hoped Sigmund would follow Henry's example in regards to religion. And surprisingly, not all of them were Protestant
     
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  13. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Except Mary has no second name (AFAIK) for them to change it to.
     
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  14. UCB79 Bookworm, 1st class

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    At the risk of sounding corny, I like the idea
    if only because it would, I’d like to think, have given poor Mary a happier life than the one she was saddled with.
     
  15. Alexander Helios Pre-Columbian Satan

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    Well, my best bet is similar to Mary Tudor's OTL marriage to Philip of Spain.
     
  16. Alexander Helios Pre-Columbian Satan

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    I'd like to think that too. Mary gets put through way too much shit OTL.
     
  17. Alexander Helios Pre-Columbian Satan

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    Supreme Head of the Church of Poland... now that's a religion! What would their members be called? Policans? Or Politarians? I vote for the second one btw.
     
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  18. Maoistic Banned

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    Could this mean that Spain can now use English, Lithuanian and Polish soldiers to aid the Habsburgs against the Ottoman Empire to reclaim all of Hungary if not all of the Balkans?
     
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  19. Alexander Helios Pre-Columbian Satan

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    Hungary, at best. All the Balkans, well, a little too ambitious.
     
  20. Polish Eagle AntiFa Supersoldier

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    Perhaps, but I’d lean on ‘no.’ Though the privileges of the szlachta were institutionalized more firmly with the Union of Lublin, the precedent for them was already there—indeed had been there since the fourteenth century. That means that the Polish aristocracy have a strong say in financing wars and serving in them. Fitting a Polish-Lithuanian-English personal union into a grand Crusading Alliance is unlikely, particularly since all three kingdoms have strong Protestant elements that will protest.

    More likely, you’d just see the English equivalent of Lisowczycy—Catholic mercenary warriors renowned for their bloodlust and religious zeal.