WI Mary Queen of Scots was born a boy?

As says the title. If Mary were born a boy instead (James VI?) what would be the consequences? I understand that there would be no Treaty of Greenwich to be broken, and so no war between England and Scotland, but what more? Being raised by Mary of Guise would probably mean that the young king would be Catholic, but the fact that he lives in Scotland instead of France would be enough to make Catholicism stronger there?
 
Mary a boy??

The mind boggles...ROFL:D

Seriously, Mary only went to France for dynastic marriage, so an earlier James the Sixth without Calvinistic abuse of his upbringing would be a bloody good idea.

A James Sixt of around the same age as Elizabeth of England, would give us the possibility of a Royal Wedding similar to Ferdinand and Isabella (Castile and Aragon). That could unite the kingdoms and give Spain a very bad headache. For one thing, Portugal was an ally of England and France an ally of Scotland.

Keep this one going - looks like fun ;)
 
The mind boggles...ROFL:D

Seriously, Mary only went to France for dynastic marriage, so an earlier James the Sixth without Calvinistic abuse of his upbringing would be a bloody good idea.

But if this earlier James VI is raised as a Catholic, could it mean a weaker Reformation in Scotland?

A James Sixt of around the same age as Elizabeth of England, would give us the possibility of a Royal Wedding similar to Ferdinand and Isabella (Castile and Aragon). That could unite the kingdoms and give Spain a very bad headache. For one thing, Portugal was an ally of England and France an ally of Scotland.

I'm not sure if Elizabeth would marry him, as it seems that she never really intended to marry anyone. It would be even harder if he stays Catholic.
 
But if this earlier James VI is raised as a Catholic, could it mean a weaker Reformation in Scotland?



I'm not sure if Elizabeth would marry him, as it seems that she never really intended to marry anyone. It would be even harder if he stays Catholic.

Entirely possible, however what would be the possibility of *James having an expedient conversion to Protestantism? Think of Henri IV, except working in reverse - "Edinburgh is worth a presbyter" perhaps?
And if converted to Protestantism, the logic for a marriage between *James and Elizabeth could become overwhelming.
 
Having a potential male heir available would likely greatly increase the power of the Catholic faction in England. This *James VI is born in 1542, so when Mary Tudor died he would be 16, virtually of age. I doubt Mary would ever disown Elizabeth for *James, but who knows what the conservative nobility would do after she was gone? If the English Catholics could pull together behind him, there might never be a Queen Elizabeth; or, a shotgun (blunderbus?) marriage could be arranged (although this might be hard to pull off; weren't these two first cousins? If so, they'd need a papal dispensation, and who know if that would be forthcoming?).

I'm not sure this would even work to keep England Catholic, though. Protestantism was pretty entrenched in London, and Edward VI's visitors had already trashed a lot of the medieval iconongraphy that connected people to the old faith. And even nobles and gentry with Roman sympathies weren't about to return the property they, um, acquired following the dissolution of the monasteries; I've gathered this was a sore spot between the English government and the papacy that Mary never figured out how to negotiate. Continental-style religious civil war seems likely. If young King James inclines towards chivalric traditions, he might solve the divisions the way Henry V did--by invading France.

This POD would, incidentally, rob us of one of the better titles in English literature; John Knox would never have cause to write "The First Blast of the Trumpet Against the Monstrous Regiment of Women."
 
This could also have implications in the New World. Would *James be open to colonizing the New World?
 
Entirely possible, however what would be the possibility of *James having an expedient conversion to Protestantism? Think of Henri IV, except working in reverse - "Edinburgh is worth a presbyter" perhaps?
And if converted to Protestantism, the logic for a marriage between *James and Elizabeth could become overwhelming.

Even in this case I'm not sure it would happen. It seems that Elizabeth never really considered the idea of getting married as a good one. I mean, she surely received and made proposals of such unions (the Duke of Anjou is the first I can remember), but apparently she didn't like the possibility of being dominated by a man. Also, if she likes *James VI she doesn't need to marry him. She only needs to make him her heir, as she did with the OTL son of Mary. But this time we wouldn't have a Scotish monarch "losing the head" in England.

Having a potential male heir available would likely greatly increase the power of the Catholic faction in England. This *James VI is born in 1542, so when Mary Tudor died he would be 16, virtually of age. I doubt Mary would ever disown Elizabeth for *James, but who knows what the conservative nobility would do after she was gone? If the English Catholics could pull together behind him, there might never be a Queen Elizabeth; or, a shotgun (blunderbus?) marriage could be arranged (although this might be hard to pull off; weren't these two first cousins? If so, they'd need a papal dispensation, and who know if that would be forthcoming?).

Well, the Papal dispensation would be easy (after all, is a small price to pay in order to keep England Catholic). And IOTL Philip was younger than Mary, so I can see her trying to get a union with James. Also, it would fit in the Habsburg's plans, as it help to make Scotland be away from that alliance with France (of course, James's French mother wouldn't like it). And if he is the king consort at the time of Mary's death it would be easier for him to push his own claims to England against Elizabeth.

I'm not sure this would even work to keep England Catholic, though. Protestantism was pretty entrenched in London, and Edward VI's visitors had already trashed a lot of the medieval iconongraphy that connected people to the old faith. And even nobles and gentry with Roman sympathies weren't about to return the property they, um, acquired following the dissolution of the monasteries; I've gathered this was a sore spot between the English government and the papacy that Mary never figured out how to negotiate. Continental-style religious civil war seems likely. If young King James inclines towards chivalric traditions, he might solve the divisions the way Henry V did--by invading France.

I agree with you here, probably in the long run England (and Scotland) would face some ugly religious civil war. It would be even more interesting if eventually the English declare war against France. We would have English Protestants X Catholic English government X French Catholic government X French Protestants.
 
Yippeee

Elizabeth and *James might be wedded for dynastic convenience and need not invade France - Spain's around, so why not thrash Spain/rob Phillip's American colonies for dosh?

This TL will still have the Elizabethan privateers in it (unless butterflied away) so the E*J (or *JE) partnership could make use of them.

Anyway, I don't see why England must necessarily turn Catholic again - Elizabeth's ministers had suffered from the Inquisition under Mary Tudor and wanted no part of it. *James would have thought London worth a little religious independence from the Pope.

I'm still not too sure where this TL is going. Can you help me ?
 
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