WI Mary of Burgundy had married Ferdinand II of Aragon

yourworstnightmare

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Well, John claimed the throne of Navarre, but the rightful heir was Catherine, daughter of Gaston of Foix, because Navarre didn't have Salic Law. One thing you could is to make Francis I of Navarre live longer and marry a daughter of Isabella and John. It would unify their claims of Navarre and their children would have a claim on Castille.

The union of Aragon and Burgundy would still need to face French oposition. France wanted Burgundian and Aragonese territories, but now they don't have the resources of Castille and the HRE to help them. Aragon would be desperate to find allies against the French. You could see an alliance with Portugal and Castille (as Juana is married to the Portuguese king) and whoever is an enemy of the Valois. Could England enter this alliance too?

Yeah, you're right about Catherine, however I still think binding Castille and Navarre closer could eventually end up in a Union, not through Isabella and John though. Right now Castille, Navarre and Aragon- Burgundy are creating a block while France and the Habsburgs are creating a rival block. With Maximilian's marriage to Marie of Orleans has brought the HRE and France closely together. Portugal is against Castille for the moment at least, and England is for the moment not associated with any of the blocks. However the early deaths of Mary could probably create more trouble...
 

yourworstnightmare

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Ok, still about Isabella. She marries John of Foix in 1475. In 1477 Juana tries to take the Castillan throne with Portuguese support and support from some Castillan nobles. Isabella and John flees to Navarra. The promised help from Aragon never arrived, since the Aragonese feared France might have joined the war, and sided with the Portuguese. Isabella end up a queen in exile, while Portugal and Castille form an alliance. Ferdinand and his father John II start to build a relationship with the new queen of Castille, and her husband the king of Portugal.

Mary and Ferdinand were married in 1472. Already in 1473 Mary gave birth to a daughter called Joana. She had two more daughters; Catherine in 1476 and Margaret in 1481. She gave birth to a stillborn son in 1479 and died in her 5th preganacy in 1485. In 1485 Ferdiand become a widower with three daughters and no son. Even though he declare Joana heiress of both Burgundy and Aragon, some Aragonese nobles are sceptic about a female ruler. France also fearing a new "Mary" situation support the idea that Aragon shall be ruled by a king. Meanwhile Joana have a son called Henry (born 1476) who become heir of Castille. John and Isabella have two sons; Gaston (1478) and John (1480).
 

yourworstnightmare

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OOC; I was not sure if I would give the short lifespan to Mary or Isabella. I decided that Isabella at this point have been through enough. Also, the challenge for Ferdinand with only female heirs is very intriguing.

IC; In 1485 Ferdinand was a widower without a son. He had announced his eldest daughter Joana, at this point 12-year-old heiress of Burgundy and Aragon. In Burgundy this went without problems, in Franche Comte and the Lowlands she was greeted as the daughter of Mary and grandchild of Charles the Bold. In Aragon the nobility was sceptic about a female heiress. They were used to male rulers, and feared that a marriage with a foreign ruler woul be the end of Aragonese independence. Meanwhile the young king of France, the 15-year-old Charles VIII asked for Joana's hand, the King of France promised to drop french claims against Aragon (Rosello) and allow Ferdinand to split the inheritance in a way that Joana would only be heiress of Burgundy (and crowned duchess at the same day she married Charles). The Aaragonese nobility saw this as a good deal, they more or less demanded Ferdinand to take it. Ferdinand cut a deal with France that stated that Joana would continue as the sovereign Duchess of Aragon through her marriage. In 1487 Charles VIII and Joana were married in Paris. King Charles dropped all French claims on Aragonese territory. Joana would handle Burgundian affairs and travel to Brussels (which had become Burgundian capital) once a year. However a French-Burgundian Union was secured for Charles' and Joana's heirs.

Meanwhile Ferdinand had announce his now 11-year-old daughter Catherine as heiress, but the Aragonese nobility more or less demanded him to remarry. In 1488 Francis II duke of Brittany died. The fear of a marriage between Anne and a foreign ruler Charles VIII threaten the duchy with an invasion. Charles VIII declared he had the right to decide whom Anne would marry and he decided that a son of Maximilian and Marie of Orleans would be a good idea. Maximilian and Marie had married in 1475, and had three children, Frederick born 1476, Leopold born 1474 and Marie born 1479. To avoid Anne marrying a heir Charles decided to have her marrying Leopold. However Ferdinand is also interrested in this marriage. Charles also have an obligation through his marriage with Joana to not go to war with Aragon. In 1489 Anne flee to Aragon when the French invade Brittany. In 1492 she and Ferdinand marries. Charles threaten with war and is already seeking a excuse to annex Brittany to the crown, or place one of Francis II's bastard children on the throne. The estates of Brittany was not amused and declared support for Anne.
 
OOC; I was not sure if I would give the short lifespan to Mary or Isabella. I decided that Isabella at this point have been through enough. Also, the challenge for Ferdinand with only female heirs is very intriguing.

IC; In 1485 Ferdinand was a widower without a son. He had announced his eldest daughter Joana, at this point 12-year-old heiress of Burgundy and Aragon. In Burgundy this went without problems, in Franche Comte and the Lowlands she was greeted as the daughter of Mary and grandchild of Charles the Bold. In Aragon the nobility was sceptic about a female heiress. They were used to male rulers, and feared that a marriage with a foreign ruler woul be the end of Aragonese independence. Meanwhile the young king of France, the 15-year-old Charles VIII asked for Joana's hand, the King of France promised to drop french claims against Aragon (Rosello) and allow Ferdinand to split the inheritance in a way that Joana would only be heiress of Burgundy (and crowned duchess at the same day she married Charles). The Aaragonese nobility saw this as a good deal, they more or less demanded Ferdinand to take it. Ferdinand cut a deal with France that stated that Joana would continue as the sovereign Duchess of Aragon through her marriage. In 1487 Charles VIII and Joana were married in Paris. King Charles dropped all French claims on Aragonese territory. Joana would handle Burgundian affairs and travel to Brussels (which had become Burgundian capital) once a year. However a French-Burgundian Union was secured for Charles' and Joana's heirs.

Meanwhile Ferdinand had announce his now 11-year-old daughter Catherine as heiress, but the Aragonese nobility more or less demanded him to remarry. In 1488 Francis II duke of Brittany died. The fear of a marriage between Anne and a foreign ruler Charles VIII threaten the duchy with an invasion. Charles VIII declared he had the right to decide whom Anne would marry and he decided that a son of Maximilian and Marie of Orleans would be a good idea. Maximilian and Marie had married in 1475, and had three children, Frederick born 1476, Leopold born 1474 and Marie born 1479. To avoid Anne marrying a heir Charles decided to have her marrying Leopold. However Ferdinand is also interrested in this marriage. Charles also have an obligation through his marriage with Joana to not go to war with Aragon. In 1489 Anne flee to Aragon when the French invade Brittany. In 1492 she and Ferdinand marries. Charles threaten with war and is already seeking a excuse to annex Brittany to the crown, or place one of Francis II's bastard children on the throne. The estates of Brittany was not amused and declared support for Anne.

Nice, but I'm not sure if Ferdinand would risk the peace he managed to get with the French by marrying Anne of Brittany. Even if France declared that would not invade Aragon such treaty could be easily ignored. Now, with the resources of Burgundy and the alliance with the HRE if the French king decides that Aragon made a mistake by marrying Anne they would invade it and try to conquer all the territories they wanted without great resistance.

I think that Ferdinand would take this opportunity of peace and try to strengthen the ties with his Italian relatives in Naples. There was a perfect choice of wife there: Isabella of Naples, daugther of prince Alphonse (heir of the throne) and granddaughter of the king Ferdinand I. She had the right age (15-years-old in 1585) and could be used as a tool to strengthen Aragonese influence in Southern Italy (and this would be the right moment, as the French would still have their focus in Burgundy and Brittany).
 
But wouldn't France be able to control Naples if Aragon does not have castillian support? Notice that there will not be a Gonzalo Fernández de Córdoba and no castillian troops to back up Ferdinand ambitions.
 
But wouldn't France be able to control Naples if Aragon does not have castillian support? Notice that there will not be a Gonzalo Fernández de Córdoba and no castillian troops to back up Ferdinand ambitions.

True, but if I understood well Ferdinand bought French non-intervention by giving them Burgundy. Of course it will not stop the Valois, they will break such treaty anytime in the future, but it would give some time to Ferdinand to build alliances. The question is if he will be successful, as now Castille doesn't have the promise of inheriting Aragon as IOTL, and so they wouldn't be so interested in helping Ferdinand in his Italian adventures.
 

yourworstnightmare

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Nice, but I'm not sure if Ferdinand would risk the peace he managed to get with the French by marrying Anne of Brittany. Even if France declared that would not invade Aragon such treaty could be easily ignored. Now, with the resources of Burgundy and the alliance with the HRE if the French king decides that Aragon made a mistake by marrying Anne they would invade it and try to conquer all the territories they wanted without great resistance.

I think that Ferdinand would take this opportunity of peace and try to strengthen the ties with his Italian relatives in Naples. There was a perfect choice of wife there: Isabella of Naples, daugther of prince Alphonse (heir of the throne) and granddaughter of the king Ferdinand I. She had the right age (15-years-old in 1585) and could be used as a tool to strengthen Aragonese influence in Southern Italy (and this would be the right moment, as the French would still have their focus in Burgundy and Brittany).

Interresting, I'm sure Italy would be more important for Ferdinand. In that case Anne would be married of to Leopold to strengthe French-Habsburg relations. Leopold who is the younger Habsburg brother would take over Brittany, not a ideal solution, but at least the duchy stay within the kingdom. If Ferdinand next marry Isabella of Naples, he could secure his grip of southern Italy, and with the french non- intervention treaty Ferdinand has free hands of Italy. France on the other hand would probably seek to strengthen their Burgundian duchy.

From now on most of Europena royalty will be altered. I guess now it will become really messy. If I ever reach the reformation in this speculation I have no ideaq what will happen in the Lowlands.
 

yourworstnightmare

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I am ressurecting this thread now. I have some spare time and I am willing to drag this out to the 1500s. I will start with a recap of what's happened this far.

1460s; Mary's and Ferdinand's wedding planned by their parents
1468; Treaty of the Bulls of Guisando; Isabella become heiress of Castille
1472; Ferdinand and Mary get married
1475; Isabella's young niece Juana marries her uncle Alfonso V of Portugal
Isabella marry John of Foix
Maximilian of Austria marry Marie of Orleans (sister of Louis XII)
1477; Portugal attack Castille, Isabella in exile in Navarra, Juana is queen of Castille
1485; Mary dies, leaving Ferdinand with 3 daughters. Charles VIII of France ask for the hand of his eldest daughter Joana, Ferdinand pressured by the Aragonese nobility to remarry, marries Isabella of Naples
1487; Joana, duchess of Burgundy marry Charles VIII
1492; Charles VIII marry of Anne of Brittany to Leopold of Habsburg, 2nd son of Maximilian and Marie

Characters;
Ferdinand of Aragon
1 st marriage; Mary of Burgundy;
children;
Joana duchess of Burgundy (1473) married to Charles VIII of France
Catherine (1476)
Margaret (1481)
2nd marriage; Isabella of Naples

Isabella, exiled queen of Castille
married to John of Foix;
children;
Gaston (1478)
John (1480)

Joana, queen of Castille
married to Alfonso V of Portugal
children;
Henry (1476)

Leopold von HabsburgM
married to Marie of Orleans
children;
Frederick (1476)
Leopold (1474) married to Anne of Brittany
Marie (1479)
 
Why would Portugal try to seize Galicia when they never claimed it?

Well, on an OOC side, when the war turned on the Isabelines favour IOTL Afonso V did ask for Galicia in exchange of withdrawing from the conflict. Ferdinand & Isabella showed their middle fingers, of course.
 

yourworstnightmare

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OOC; I have decided that Portugal did not claim Galicia at this point, however who knows what will happen when things in Castille again become unstable...

IC; In 1487 the Aragonese nobility was hopeful as queen Isabella was pregnant, however she gave birth to Ferdinand's 4th daughter Maria. However in 1489 Isabella gave birth to a son; Ramon. Ferdinand immidiately declared Ramon as heir of Aragon.

In the mid 1480s the exiled queen Isabella had two sons, which both had claims on the Castillan throne. In 1485 Isabella had declared her 7- year- old son Gaston as the rightful king of Castille. Joana, the queen of Castille was in the meantime accused of being a pawn of the Portuguese. Joana therefor promised that she would abdicate as soon as her son Henry turned 18-years- old, that would be in 1494. Many of Isabella's old supporters secretly plotted against her though, and a fear that Isabella might be able to raise a strong army of supporters in Navarra and parts of Castille was strong in the Castillan court. Joana wanted to be sure of continuing Portuguese support. In 1481 her husband and uncle Alfonso V had died, and her cousin Joao II was now king of Portugal. John II was however not very interrested in renewing tha alliance, Portugal had turned their eyes to the seas, and were busy establishing trading positions in Africa. Most of the Portuguese nobility did not consider a Castillan civil war a priority anyway. Joana turn to Ferdinand, but also in Aragon the support for Joana is low. Meanwhile Isabella strengthen her own position, and in 1488 when she and ger supporters attack Joana is in a very weak position.
 

yourworstnightmare

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The battle between Isabella and Joana 1488-90 is a bloody conflict that engulfed much of Castille, even though Joana in the end is able to achieve victory, and Isabella and her supporters once again have to flee the country, the result is clear. Joana had kept the throne without Portuguese support, however most of Castille is devastated from the war. With no more allies in Iberia Joana direct her diplomacy towards France instead, while showing much suspicions towards Aragon and Navarra, whom in her mind had supported Isabella. That of course make Ferdinand more and more lean towards supporting Isabella's faction, and take in many Castillan refugees. However since Aragon now fear a alliance between Castille and France being in the works Ferdinand need to find his own allies to prevent Aragon being crushed from two sides.
 

yourworstnightmare

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In France Charles VIII had his own dilemma, his pact not to attack Aragon had directed his interrests towards Italy. Since the king of Naples Ferdinand I was being at odds with the Papacy, Innocent VIII asked Charles to claim the kingdom, however in the meantime the pope had sent Ferdinand of Aragon the same offer. The French was not prepared for an adventure in southern Italy yet, but there were fears that the Aragonese would react faster. However both Charles VIII and Ferdinand of Aragon claimed their right to the throne of Naples. In 1494, the son of Ferdinand I, Alfonso II created a lot chaos in Italy, and again ther Charles was asked to intervene, this time by the duke of Milan, Ludovico Sforza. Charles entered Italy in 1494 with an army of 25 000 men (including 8000 Swiss mercenaries). But even though Alfonso II was beaten, the Italian states now came to fear France, and formed the League of Venice, and togehter they forced the French army to retreat. Meanwhile the Aragonese invaded Naples and reinstalled Alfonso. The whole Italian expediton had ended in a disaster.

Charles VIII had two children with Joana of Burgundy; Marie (1488) and Francis (1493). When Charles returned to France he found his wife ruling in Paris with a strong support behind her. Charles suddenly had to live with sharing power with his wife. It's said he planned a coup to remove all power from Joana, but in 1498 he suddenly fell into a coma and died, with his son Francis only 5-years-old, Joana was now the ruler of France, and suddenly the daughter of Ferdinand of Aragon was the regent of Aragon's archnemesis.
 

yourworstnightmare

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OOC; I am still planning on expanding this, probably tomorrow. I will just make some comment on Joana's character; since she is the child of two very strong historical figures; Feridinand of Aragon and Mary of Burgundy she is a very different wife to Charles VIII than the weak Anne of Brittany was. Charles' Italian adventure is mostly historical, it failed miserably. The difference is now he has a strong wife with a huge powerbase in Burgundy waiting for him at home. Well, at least he has heirs in this TL, unlike IRL. I am not saying Joana's regime would be easy, she'd probably face a lot of opposition. And Joana's regime in France and Burgundy is what nextn chapter will deal with (Then back to Iberia, I think).
 

yourworstnightmare

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IC; Joana was declared regent of France in 1498 shortly after Charles' death. One of the moves she immediately took was diplomatic steps towards Aragon and her father Ferdinand. However thing got complicated as she wanted her father and the Aragonese nobility to declare her son heir of Aragon. However the Aragonese did not want to be subjects of the French, so they stayed with the decision to have Ferdinand's son Ramon as heir of the throne. In France many distursted the "Burgundian woman" and a clique was formed under Louis, the Duke of Orleans, which soon became an alliance between Orleans and Leopold and Anne of Brittany. Leopold was a nephew of the duke, and the Habsburg family in general supported Orleans. Joana merged Franche Comte with the Kingdom of France, but strengthened the independent position of the Burgundian Lowlands. In 1503 a coup attempt by Louis of Orleans was put down, mostly with help of troops raised in the Lowlands and foreign mercenaries. That only strengthened the image of Joana as the "Foreigner". Especially in Brittany a very hostile relation with Paris was built up, and many Breton nobles considered a break with France, a policy that even Leopold and Anne concidered, however the fear that Brittany would not get foreign support hindered them from taking any further steps. In 1508, however a few years before planned, Joana backed down and her son became Francis I. She hoped that the son of Charles VIII would calm thing down in France, while she herself retired to Bruxelles, now tha capital of her Burgundian Duchy.
 

yourworstnightmare

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In Aragon Ferdinand planned the invasion of Naples. As well as Charles VIII of France he had claimed the throne of the South Italian Kingdom. The Kingdom of Naples was after the French failure in a confusion, with different kings replacing each other quickly. The last king Frederick IV lost his Kingdom to the invading Aragonese in 1501. Even though Ferdinand rejoiced the ascension of his daughter Joana as regent in France, the relationship between father and daughter soon became bad, when Joana claimed the throne of Aragon for her son Francis. Meanwhile Ferdinand's son Ramon grew up to be a competent young man, and future king of Aragon, Sardinia, Sicily and naples, and count of Barcelona. However the alliance formed between Castille and France gave the Aragonese king a sever headache.

In Castille queen Joana abdicated in favor for her son Henry, who became Henry V of Castille. He found his ally in Joana of Burgundy in 1504. However Castille was poor and weak after the last civil war, and with Isabella's sons Gaston and John continued to plot from Aragon and Navarre a new war could be imminent. The agreement between Castille and France was simple; if Isabella's sons tried to take the throne of Castille with support from either Navarre or Aragon, it would be considered a decalration of war, and France and Castille would fight the threat together.
 
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